Matrix Games Forums

April 3, 1942
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More setbacks in China. The main problem I'm now having is determining where Japan really intends to attack. The lack of recon is really hurting me. Q-Ball seems be to skillfully manufacturing fake attacks and even fake movement to force me to remove units from where he really intends to attack.

For instance, he just kicked out a single unit on the 3x hex just above Kukong perhaps forcing me to now defend on a 2x hex. I might be able to get a couple of units back into the 3x hex before he can move into the 2x hex. We'll see.

How this developed is, so it appears, Q-Ball sent south all but one unit from the hex in question and behind it, in Kukong, I would see only a couple of units. Given what I could see, I assumed he was shifting his units either to Changsha or to the new threat on my weak right flank around Kweilin. After a week I moved most of the units out of the 3x hex north to give them a better chance of getting to where they might be needed as it appear Japan was withdrawing. But after a week or so more, suddenly 6 Japanese units reappeared in the 3x hex opposed by only a single Chinese unit. No info on the map indicated that 5 units were moving into the hex. [&:] A deliberate attack then drove my single unit out of the hex.

This whole Japanese attack was well-done: it succeeded because I was induced to withdrew my units from the hex by, I'm guessing, Q-Ball's fake withdrawal from the hex and a potential move to my weak right flank.

Lacking recon I can't really tell where Japanese units are moving and I'm unable to tell what movements of Japanese units represent real threats and, so, I often under-react to some threats and over-react to other threats. It is just a matter of time before I guessed wrong, as I just did on this one important hex. I see I should have given recon as the primary training to most Chinese bomber pilots but I doubt that would really have helped much.

Such is China.

Be that as it may...

Below is my first significant offensive move in India. Japan took Vizagapatnam and seems to be unloading a steady stream of transports there. I assume this supply dump is to provide an alternative source of supply for Japanese units I expect will move eventually toward Bombay. Only a relatively small Japanese unit (Yokosuka 2nd SNLF) is defending Viz itself. I have a good Aussie Division RRing to the city located to the west of Viz (Cocanada) where they will unstrat. They will be met in that city by a USMC tank unit and an ART unit. All will then march to Vizagapatham and crush the Japanese defenders. If this works, I don't intend to stay in Viz as the city itself is not critical and it's on 1x terrain. My goal is just to take the supplies and, perhaps, fuel that must be building up in the city. This isn't an important attack on my part, but you've got to start somewhere.

Good luck on your attack! Hope you can keep your DL low so he does not send battleships to bombard Cocanada.

Well, THAT isn't something I considered. [&o]

And Japanese BB's recently hit Madras so they are likely not far away. Any attack on Viz will potentially expose my good units to BBs for no great gain no matter how they get to the city. [&:] Second thoughts are developing as I type!

I will ask my generals for alternative proposals for the use of these good units. It might turn out that someone might lose their job over this (ill-)planned attack. [:-]

ORIGINAL: Panjack

How this developed is, so it appears, Q-Ball sent south all but one unit from the hex in question and behind it, in Kukong, I would see only a couple of units. Given what I could see, I assumed he was shifting his units either to Changsha or to the new threat on my weak right flank around Kweilin. After a week I moved most of the units out of the 3x hex north to give them a better chance of getting to where they might be needed as it appear Japan was withdrawing. But after a week or so more, suddenly 6 Japanese units reappeared in the 3x hex opposed by only a single Chinese unit. No info on the map indicated that 5 units were moving into the hex. [&:] A deliberate attack then drove my single unit out of the hex.

So they marched directly from Kukong to the hex NW of it with 3x terrain and drove you out? There's not much you can do to counter this except monitor what is in Kukong and always have enough in the 3x hex to counter what Japan has in the Kukong. Because as you have found out first hand the IJA can reappear immediately and attack before you can respond.

ORIGINAL: Panjack
Lacking recon I can't really tell where Japanese units are moving and I'm unable to tell what movements of Japanese units represent real threats and, so, I often under-react to some threats and over-react to other threats. It is just a matter of time before I guessed wrong, as I just did on this one important hex. I see I should have given recon as the primary training to most Chinese bomber pilots but I doubt that would really have helped much.

It's not too late to use bombers on recon even if they don't have training. Typically I prefer to use camera armed British recon planes but in your case you may not be able to get them in. Trying to react towards Japanese moves in a proportional way is definitely difficult. The only way I have ever been able to do so is by closely monitoring staging areas so I know what is going to hit me before it does. Keeping my lines at a distance from staging areas is also important but not always possible.

Didn't think of importing recon units. [&o]

I only just recently got, in India, a unit of the Mitchell PR-II recon planes (with a group of depressed pilots with morale in the 40s) but was intending to use them there. But I guess it's a good idea to break down the unit, get some higher quality recon pilots, and send a 2-plane detachment to Chungking. Boy can they fly far! Unfortunately I don't think I get any replacements of these beautiful planes for over a year. I'll have to baby them by closely monitoring the pilots and planes.

I see I also get a unit of Hurricane PRII recon planes in India in another day.

Is it true that having better intel on LCU's you're battling with in a hex improves combat results?

ORIGINAL: Panjack

Didn't think of importing recon units. [&o]

I only just recently got, in India, a unit of the Mitchell PR-II recon planes (with a group of depressed pilots with morale in the 40s) but was intending to use them there. But I guess it's a good idea to break down the unit, get some higher quality recon pilots, and send a 2-plane detachment to Chungking. Boy can they fly far! Unfortunately I don't think I get any replacements of these beautiful planes for over a year. I'll have to baby them by closely monitoring the pilots and planes.

I see I also get a unit of Hurricane PRII recon planes in India in another day.

Is it true that having better intel on LCU's you're battling with in a hex improves combat results?

I have always wondered about DLs and land combat results too. Can't say for sure but my guess is that it does not help in defence because your units are in their forts while he is moving, but if you bombard or attack it should help -- even if it does not show as a factor in the combat report.

I try to recon enemy units before bombing them and it seems to help those results, and it definitely helps to have recon with a naval bombardment.

I would dig in at Cocanada and send any of your mobile Indian CD units there. I think Brad is setting you up here. Its more important to prevent him from getting to Madras that taking Viza back from him at this time. I would find some subs and mine Cocanada.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Panjack

Didn't think of importing recon units. [&o]

I only just recently got, in India, a unit of the Mitchell PR-II recon planes (with a group of depressed pilots with morale in the 40s) but was intending to use them there. But I guess it's a good idea to break down the unit, get some higher quality recon pilots, and send a 2-plane detachment to Chungking. Boy can they fly far! Unfortunately I don't think I get any replacements of these beautiful planes for over a year. I'll have to baby them by closely monitoring the pilots and planes.

I see I also get a unit of Hurricane PRII recon planes in India in another day.

Is it true that having better intel on LCU's you're battling with in a hex improves combat results?

I have always wondered about DLs and land combat results too. Can't say for sure but my guess is that it does not help in defence because your units are in their forts while he is moving, but if you bombard or attack it should help -- even if it does not show as a factor in the combat report.

I try to recon enemy units before bombing them and it seems to help those results, and it definitely helps to have recon with a naval bombardment.

I go with no.

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I would dig in at Cocanada and send any of your mobile Indian CD units there. I think Brad is setting you up here. Its more important to prevent him from getting to Madras that taking Viza back from him at this time. I would find some subs and mine Cocanada.

My first instinct was to agree with you but taking Viza I think would help the Madras defense greatly as the Japanese won't be able to rail units into the Viza thus forcing them to march a lot further thus buying the Allies some time at a critical juncture. It may be a trap but I think the reward outweighs the risk. And whether or not the attack on Viza succeeds or fails, Panjack should be falling back to Cocanda to set up a road block anyway.

ORIGINAL: Panjack

Didn't think of importing recon units. [&o]

I only just recently got, in India, a unit of the Mitchell PR-II recon planes (with a group of depressed pilots with morale in the 40s) but was intending to use them there. But I guess it's a good idea to break down the unit, get some higher quality recon pilots, and send a 2-plane detachment to Chungking. Boy can they fly far! Unfortunately I don't think I get any replacements of these beautiful planes for over a year. I'll have to baby them by closely monitoring the pilots and planes.

I see I also get a unit of Hurricane PRII recon planes in India in another day.

Is it true that having better intel on LCU's you're battling with in a hex improves combat results?

It will be a very long time before you start getting replacement airframes for the Mitchell squadron.

Use them sparingly as Ops losses will gut the tiny squadron you start with.

The Hurricanes start getting replacement airframes sooner than the Mitchells.

Few players take note of this but Lysanders carry a camera!!

Yes, thy have very short legs, but in a theater where you have bases close to the front lines they CAN be effective.

+1 on avoiding the ops losses on dedicated Recon aircraft. Flying max range is a no-no unless the intel is likely to be critical - like the whereabouts of KB.
And recon missions often seem to take some flak damage that makes ops losses on a long flight very likely. I try to keep missions to 2/3 of max range or less, and monitor both pilot fatigue and plane fatigue.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Few players take note of this but Lysanders carry a camera!!

Yes, thy have very short legs, but in a theater where you have bases close to the front lines they CAN be effective.

Didn't know that...and by chance they've been training up in recon at Chungking.

I'm sending one CD unit to Cocanada to see what happens. It can unpack in a single day so should be ready if some BBs come calling. It only has 6" guns so won't put much scare into any BBs.

I've yet to figure out India. I'll have to glance at some AARs to see what happens when India is attacked by Japan. I still don't have a good sense yet. I am starting send more and more units out of my Bombay and Karachi fortresses but don't want to get too carried away as I signs suggest Japan might be moving against the West coast of India at some point. Subs spotted some AOs off of Ceylon and units prepping for Bombay are on Ceylon. The KB disappeared from off Oz a number of days ago and it might be returning to India.

Odd combat at Calcutta. I guess the Japanese army isn't invincible after all. [;)]

[font="Courier New"]Ground combat at Calcutta (52,37)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 6284 troops, 138 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 1189 <-- start

Defending force 13413 troops, 98 guns, 14 vehicles, Assault Value = 249

Japanese adjusted assault: 8 <--- end [X(]

Allied adjusted defense: 989

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 123 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1484 casualties reported [8D] <-- not a single Allied soldier hurt!
Squads: 10 destroyed, 156 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 22 (4 destroyed, 18 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
6th Guards Division
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
148th Infantry Regiment
2nd/C Division
18th Medium Field Artillery Regi
[/font]

On the China front, I was lucky to get a substantial unit into the 3x hex I thought I had lost before Q-Ball was able to move into the 2x hex. See map below. So this part of China is holding, for now. I was expecting the worst but it didn't happen (yet).

In China supplies are relentlessly falling. At the current rate of decline, China supply (in cities) should hit zero in less than 100 days. I don't know if that actually happens, but that is the way the current trend is going.

ORIGINAL: Panjack

I'm sending one CD unit to Cocanada to see what happens. It can unpack in a single day so should be ready if some BBs come calling. It only has 6" guns so won't put much scare into any BBs.

I've yet to figure out India. I'll have to glance at some AARs to see what happens when India is attacked by Japan. I still don't have a good sense yet. I am starting send more and more units out of my Bombay and Karachi fortresses but don't want to get too carried away as I signs suggest Japan might be moving against the West coast of India at some point. Subs spotted some AOs off of Ceylon and units prepping for Bombay are on Ceylon. The KB disappeared from off Oz a number of days ago and it might be returning to India.

Odd combat at Calcutta. I guess the Japanese army isn't invincible after all. [;)]

[font="Courier New"]Ground combat at Calcutta (52,37)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 6284 troops, 138 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 1189 <-- start

Defending force 13413 troops, 98 guns, 14 vehicles, Assault Value = 249

Japanese adjusted assault: 8 <--- end [X(]

Allied adjusted defense: 989

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 123 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1484 casualties reported [8D] <-- not a single Allied soldier hurt!
Squads: 10 destroyed, 156 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 22 (4 destroyed, 18 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
6th Guards Division
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
148th Infantry Regiment
2nd/C Division
18th Medium Field Artillery Regi
[/font]

Most likely this was a single unit that crossed a river. Notice that the number of troops is not really consistent with the AV total. The game always shows the full AV in the hex, which I think is a bit of a glitch.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Panjack

I'm sending one CD unit to Cocanada to see what happens. It can unpack in a single day so should be ready if some BBs come calling. It only has 6" guns so won't put much scare into any BBs.

I've yet to figure out India. I'll have to glance at some AARs to see what happens when India is attacked by Japan. I still don't have a good sense yet. I am starting send more and more units out of my Bombay and Karachi fortresses but don't want to get too carried away as I signs suggest Japan might be moving against the West coast of India at some point. Subs spotted some AOs off of Ceylon and units prepping for Bombay are on Ceylon. The KB disappeared from off Oz a number of days ago and it might be returning to India.

Odd combat at Calcutta. I guess the Japanese army isn't invincible after all. [;)]

[font="Courier New"]Ground combat at Calcutta (52,37)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 6284 troops, 138 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 1189 <-- start

Defending force 13413 troops, 98 guns, 14 vehicles, Assault Value = 249

Japanese adjusted assault: 8 <--- end [X(]

Allied adjusted defense: 989

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 123 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1484 casualties reported [8D] <-- not a single Allied soldier hurt!
Squads: 10 destroyed, 156 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 22 (4 destroyed, 18 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
6th Guards Division
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
148th Infantry Regiment
2nd/C Division
18th Medium Field Artillery Regi
[/font]

Most likely this was a single unit that crossed a river. Notice that the number of troops is not really consistent with the AV total. The game always shows the full AV in the hex, which I think is a bit of a glitch.

Sure it was like what witpqs said. I bet it was a little unit coming down from the NE hex, with the goal of closing another exit door for your units in Calcutta. Basically he's trapping you there, to be sure that, when he attackswith 4 or 5 dvisions, your units in Calcutta will get destroyed and won't be able to retreat. It is a solid strategy by QBall imho. A good one. Japan can easily efford to lose 10 squads for this strategical goal.

At this point, to be honest, i keep on suggesting not to confide much on the ability of your troops to hold anything except real fortresses.
MAdras is a lost cause. If i was you i would try to keep Madras with minimal forces in order to be sure toget the most of the many reinforcement units that arrive there, but as soon as your way yo Bombay gets threatened (even by paras!), i'd be moving away

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Sure it was like what witpqs said. I bet it was a little unit coming down from the NE hex, with the goal of closing another exit door for your units in Calcutta. Basically he's trapping you there, to be sure that, when he attackswith 4 or 5 dvisions, your units in Calcutta will get destroyed and won't be able to retreat. It is a solid strategy by QBall imho. A good one. Japan can easily efford to lose 10 squads for this strategical goal.

At this point, to be honest, i keep on suggesting not to confide much on the ability of your troops to hold anything except real fortresses.
MAdras is a lost cause. If i was you i would try to keep Madras with minimal forces in order to be sure toget the most of the many reinforcement units that arrive there, but as soon as your way yo Bombay gets threatened (even by paras!), i'd be moving away

Yes it will trap the Allied units, but now that they are trapped they won't retreat. Won't this likely result in more extensive damage to the heavy industry in Calcutta? The Allies can easily afford to lose 1000 Indian squads for this strategic goal.

I don't think Panjack was intending to defend Calcutta except for the purpose of destroying the industry when the Japanese try to attack it. Panjack shouldn't be worrying about Bombay much at this point with the amphib bonus gone. Previously he mentioned that he had a whopping 1500 AV there; no way Japan is going to push them out. Still have to be careful but I think by now that Madras is worth making a stand given the security to the rear, especially if he can take Viza right now and delay a push on Madras for a few weeks.

I'm pretty sure that the industry is only at risk until the city is taken. If the Allies try to turn the tables and attack after they lose the city/base then my guess is that their results will be so bad that the industry won't get hit.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm pretty sure that the industry is only at risk until the city is taken. If the Allies try to turn the tables and attack after they lose the city/base then my guess is that their results will be so bad that the industry won't get hit.

"»» Captured Heavy Industry is halved each time it is captured. For example, a
50 point Heavy Industry that is captured is reduced to 25; if it is captured
again, it is reduced by half again to 12 (fractions are rounded down)."

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I'm pretty sure that the industry is only at risk until the city is taken. If the Allies try to turn the tables and attack after they lose the city/base then my guess is that their results will be so bad that the industry won't get hit.

"»» Captured Heavy Industry is halved each time it is captured. For example, a
50 point Heavy Industry that is captured is reduced to 25; if it is captured
again, it is reduced by half again to 12 (fractions are rounded down)."

Right, but the point is that there is no way the Allies will be able to recapture it right after they lose it. And even short of capturing it, I figure that by the time they lose the base they will be in such bad shape that any attack they make will have little chance of damaging the industry.