Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: dale1066

With regard to the optional rules is it worth (has it been done in CWif already ? if so apols) indicationg if the rule tends to favour the axis, allied or neither side ? IIRC in the rules/ Game Design notes originally there was this information and it helps make a more balenced game when the experience/skills of the players are taken into account.

ORIGINAL: Neilster

So Christopher, did you include fractional odds at all? I thought they helped prevent gameyness and if the computer is doing all the work...

Did we finally thrash out the groupings of options that were pro-Axis, pro-Allied and neutral? Players could further refine their optional rules in light of these.

Cheers, Neilster

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I find most optionals to be pro-attacker or pro-defender; since each side roughly spends half the game attacking or defending a lot of them balance out across the whole game, but that's just my opinion; many folks have definite ideas on which are pro-Axis or Allied.


One of my favorite innovations in WiF has been fractional odds, so I'll repeat myself here: I'm not sure if it was invented in the WiF community but it is a great way to play wargames. I'll probably never go back to playing without it. You are rewarded for throwing in whatever you can into an important attack; the days of time-consumingly and quite unrealistically re-arranging your entire army to get just enough factors to make the next odds level are over. In WiF it wipes out a lot of extraneous fighter-bomber missions for that one or two extra points. It also improves most anyone's play as they realize the implications, resulting in faster play and more focus on the big picture that the designer is trying to paint for you. There is some resistance to the idea; some people only want to use it to go to half-odds levels like 3.5:1 in conjunction with the 2d10 and you are back to factor counting; others want to throw out all rounding of anything and just keep adding up factors and die roll modifiers with no rounding at all and let the calculator generate the final plus on the 3d10, which I kind of like to eliminate a bit of cheese, slow down the attacker a little bit and try and lower the land unit density, which can get a bit ridiculously high late in a game of WiF, but not rounding things is hard to recall after playing WiF for a long time. The third die in a fractional odds + 2d10 also makes for great wargaming tragedy and comedy ... if it wasn't for that darn 1 on the fractional I would've stayed at a 13 - / - result, now I am at 'Magic' 14. ARRRRGHHHHH! The flip side comes when you take Gibraltar via the third die getting the result up to the coveted "S" result. Try it, you'll like it.

ORIGINAL: Jimm

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I find most optionals to be pro-attacker or pro-defender; since each side roughly spends half the game attacking or defending a lot of them balance out across the whole game, but that's just my opinion; many folks have definite ideas on which are pro-Axis or Allied.


One of my favorite innovations in WiF has been fractional odds, so I'll repeat myself here: I'm not sure if it was invented in the WiF community but it is a great way to play wargames. I'll probably never go back to playing without it. You are rewarded for throwing in whatever you can into an important attack; the days of time-consumingly and quite unrealistically re-arranging your entire army to get just enough factors to make the next odds level are over. In WiF it wipes out a lot of extraneous fighter-bomber missions for that one or two extra points. It also improves most anyone's play as they realize the implications, resulting in faster play and more focus on the big picture that the designer is trying to paint for you. There is some resistance to the idea; some people only want to use it to go to half-odds levels like 3.5:1 in conjunction with the 2d10 and you are back to factor counting; others want to throw out all rounding of anything and just keep adding up factors and die roll modifiers with no rounding at all and let the calculator generate the final plus on the 3d10, which I kind of like to eliminate a bit of cheese, slow down the attacker a little bit and try and lower the land unit density, which can get a bit ridiculously high late in a game of WiF, but not rounding things is hard to recall after playing WiF for a long time. The third die in a fractional odds + 2d10 also makes for great wargaming tragedy and comedy ... if it wasn't for that darn 1 on the fractional I would've stayed at a 13 - / - result, now I am at 'Magic' 14. ARRRRGHHHHH! The flip side comes when you take Gibraltar via the third die getting the result up to the coveted "S" result. Try it, you'll like it.

Fair comment, you are quite evangelical! I feel myself becoming converted.

I am still interested to see how this side the game is covered in Mwif- my expectation was that the dice rolling was pretty much "invisible" and the results just get churned out- the players wouldnt need to worry about combat tables etc. Or maybe not?

ORIGINAL: brian brian

there is already plenty of statistical info on the outcomes of the 2d10 table available. I never read that stuff myself but I would like to know the final odds, or 'plus' on the 2d10 and the fractional before making the irrevocable attack decision and I always figured that would be visible to the player.

ORIGINAL: brian brian

What Froonp said. If you can't factor enemy capabilities into your decisions the enemy will soon be beating you. It will be so nice to have the computer tally all the combat factors without clicking through all the stacks though.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: brian brian

What Froonp said. If you can't factor enemy capabilities into your decisions the enemy will soon be beating you. It will be so nice to have the computer tally all the combat factors without clicking through all the stacks though.

Yes, but you do that on the real game too. You look under every pile of units to find those ground support planes.

IIRC, Steve said that he did not want to give too many help tools for the player, so I'd be suprised if you had a list of all Ground Support Planes that can reach a given hex (would be great feature : Right Click an hex / Available Enemy Ground Support, and have the list [:D] [X(] [:D] [8D] wow would be GREAT)

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I find most optionals to be pro-attacker or pro-defender; since each side roughly spends half the game attacking or defending a lot of them balance out across the whole game, but that's just my opinion; many folks have definite ideas on which are pro-Axis or Allied.


One of my favorite innovations in WiF has been fractional odds, so I'll repeat myself here: I'm not sure if it was invented in the WiF community but it is a great way to play wargames. I'll probably never go back to playing without it. You are rewarded for throwing in whatever you can into an important attack; the days of time-consumingly and quite unrealistically re-arranging your entire army to get just enough factors to make the next odds level are over. In WiF it wipes out a lot of extraneous fighter-bomber missions for that one or two extra points. It also improves most anyone's play as they realize the implications, resulting in faster play and more focus on the big picture that the designer is trying to paint for you. There is some resistance to the idea; some people only want to use it to go to half-odds levels like 3.5:1 in conjunction with the 2d10 and you are back to factor counting; others want to throw out all rounding of anything and just keep adding up factors and die roll modifiers with no rounding at all and let the calculator generate the final plus on the 3d10, which I kind of like to eliminate a bit of cheese, slow down the attacker a little bit and try and lower the land unit density, which can get a bit ridiculously high late in a game of WiF, but not rounding things is hard to recall after playing WiF for a long time. The third die in a fractional odds + 2d10 also makes for great wargaming tragedy and comedy ... if it wasn't for that darn 1 on the fractional I would've stayed at a 13 - / - result, now I am at 'Magic' 14. ARRRRGHHHHH! The flip side comes when you take Gibraltar via the third die getting the result up to the coveted "S" result. Try it, you'll like it.

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I find most optionals to be pro-attacker or pro-defender; since each side roughly spends half the game attacking or defending a lot of them balance out across the whole game, but that's just my opinion; many folks have definite ideas on which are pro-Axis or Allied.


One of my favorite innovations in WiF has been fractional odds, so I'll repeat myself here: I'm not sure if it was invented in the WiF community but it is a great way to play wargames. I'll probably never go back to playing without it. You are rewarded for throwing in whatever you can into an important attack; the days of time-consumingly and quite unrealistically re-arranging your entire army to get just enough factors to make the next odds level are over. In WiF it wipes out a lot of extraneous fighter-bomber missions for that one or two extra points. It also improves most anyone's play as they realize the implications, resulting in faster play and more focus on the big picture that the designer is trying to paint for you. There is some resistance to the idea; some people only want to use it to go to half-odds levels like 3.5:1 in conjunction with the 2d10 and you are back to factor counting; others want to throw out all rounding of anything and just keep adding up factors and die roll modifiers with no rounding at all and let the calculator generate the final plus on the 3d10, which I kind of like to eliminate a bit of cheese, slow down the attacker a little bit and try and lower the land unit density, which can get a bit ridiculously high late in a game of WiF, but not rounding things is hard to recall after playing WiF for a long time. The third die in a fractional odds + 2d10 also makes for great wargaming tragedy and comedy ... if it wasn't for that darn 1 on the fractional I would've stayed at a 13 - / - result, now I am at 'Magic' 14. ARRRRGHHHHH! The flip side comes when you take Gibraltar via the third die getting the result up to the coveted "S" result. Try it, you'll like it.

A couple observations:
- Optionals that favor the attacker IMO must favor the Axis. Their early successes can put the Allies on the permanent defensive or at least in a lower than 50% position.

- You make it sound like you roll the third die with the others (although I may be misinterpreting), but in our games the players often want to know the fractional odds outcome before choosing the table, when they have the choice. I'd hope MWiF implements it so that you resolve the fractional odds before Blitz or Assault is chosen.

Cheers.

My guideline is RAW August 2004 and there is nothing in there about this. It sounds like a house rule. In MIWF the 3 dice are rolled at the same time.