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Where in the heavens would Japan have found all of that train availability (huge actually, we are talking moving an entire army on a less than a day notice, and where?

Well, it's important to remember that this is not a simulation of the historical Japanese economy. Erik's uber-air-force indicates that he has built Japanese industry way beyond the historical early 1945 situation. As I've mentioned before, the Allies' northern approach and the lackluster performance of the USN subs have left the Southern Resource Area open much longer than it was IRL. (In fact, if my assessment of the map is correct, it's pretty much still open.) If Erik has lots of airframes, isn't it possible there would be lots of rail stock as well?

I think Erik is one pissed-off dude. He says I was trying to make him feel bad by sending the revised turn but asking him to think about whether a re-do was fair.

I haven't heard from him since I sent a brief email last night. I don't know what he's going to do. I simply want to move on but I don't know if he's going to make that possible now.

I didn't think a re-do was called for, but I was (and am) willing to do it. I don't think I would have asked for one or that most players would have. This is a regular feature of the game. I think many of us have been bitten by this, usually on a smaller scale. I don't know of anybody who's ever asked for a re-do.

It's hard to believe Erik has never encountered this, given his experience level, but he says he hasn't. He made a mistake (to my way of thinking) by crafting an elaborate plan that had a known risk that caught him. In effect, then, he made a mistake that bit him. That's okay too. This is a long, complicated game in which things turn on mistakes.

He says this is a "bug" and draws analogies to a knight that suddenly can only move as a bishop. But I don't think it's a bug. It's just the game.

In any game between actual people, the "human factor" will come into play in some way. Though I am inclined to agree with you, Dan, I can well imagine the frustration Erik feels after years of investment in the game, to get tripped up (whether by accident or design) at the worst possible time. I just hope that the two of you can resume your great match, perhaps after a brief period to cool off. Good luck in your negotiations.

Rarely do opponents in actually war to the death across the globe communicate. So this is a feature used by some and less by others, some use it as a feature of psychops or just friendly banter. He has shared his feelings on the topic and you have shared yours. He feels he is being harmed by something that he has never encountered before and that is illogical. You feel he probably encountered it before but may not have though much of it as it was probably on a much smaller scale and not critical to his entire defensive plan. So it appears it is a problem with scale, you think it is a minor problem not warranting a do over and should have been planned for and he feels it was something out of the blue he never encountered before so could never have planned for a wonkie strat move quirk in the game design. You offered to redo the turn it seems you don't understand why he would ask for one. Maybe a day or too reflecting on the impact on the other side is in order. I do hope the game continues after you have agreed to a compromise that will satisfies both parties.

Erik sent a nice note this morning. We're fine. The game shall continue.

Thanks, gents, for your comments and soothing words.

Good news all around! [:D]

FYI, Alfred posted this on Obverts AAR. Informational, not inflammatory, just thought it should be shared here for those that don't read both AAR:

"This is not really a bug as it flows from a central game design concept.

It is not an easy task to try to code a different implementation for this central design concept for several reasons. Firstly, it is difficult to tinker with the strategic movement code without crippling the AI's use of strategic movement. Secondly, and this also links up with the first difficulty, any code changes in this area have to be thoroughly tested to ensure that the dormant computer control zone is not reactivated to interfere with other human control mechanics.

The China Theatre is the most likely area to witness this issue due to the paucity of railways, in particular the lack of multiple lines servicing most bases, and the relatively (compared to other theatres) widely spread in built trails in the countryside.

Alfred
"

It just may not have been cost effective to fix it with all of the testing that would have to be done when it is not happening that frequently. however, since it does happen, then players must plan for it and set the units to move from base to base, changing the destination possibly before it makes it to the intermediate base. More time consuming and clicks at a point when each turn takes a long time. At least we don't have to route individual trains and make sure that there is enough rolling stock and the engines to move the units, supplies, resources, and such at each base . . .

The only issue here to me, and IMO would've been up to CR and obvert to hash out (as they did, although not revolving around this particular point), is that the units did not remain in strategic mode. They dropped out of it immediately.

If they'd remained in Strategic, obvert could've just re-set their destinations to something else along the railway with basically a day's wasted movement. This would've been reasonable, and indeed it could have been abstractly seen as realistic-ish.

5/11/45

All the hullabaloo kinda derailed things, but back at it tonight:

TNNBT: D-Day at Tungchow, China, goes remarkably smoothly. No enemy interference at sea or in the air. The landings go smoothly and the Allies have a decided advantage. I think Tungchow falls tomorrow. Then the show can really get on the road, as a vast army will begin landing the day after.

This will be a meeting engagement rather than a romp. Eric is bringing in everything he can. I don't think he can really handle 15 divisions well supported unless he wins a victory in the air that allows him to also take control of the sea.

Happy to see you guys are back at it. Apologies if I missed it, but what are the port and airfield levels (and max build levels) at Tungchow?

Cheers,
CB

Tungchow is a 2(3) port and 1(6) airfield. A heckuva lot of engineers will come ashore day after tomorrow. I bet it'll be a level five airfield in a week.

Nice. That'll be a good anchor point. EDIT: I'm guessing the next two bases to the NW are also (6)-level airfields (apologies: at work at the moment).

Cheers,
CB

It is good that you are back at it. If he contests the air in China, the the Home Islands are open and he would probably rather defend against that.

If he does bring a lot of firepower to bear in the open in central China, then your 1E and 2E bombers should be able to stomp on his units. If you also stage strategic raids in the Home Islands, he probably won't be able to handle both. If you transfer the DS and fleet south, they could also rapidly bring in some of the Southeast Asian army up to help or to take other targets.

Does this operation open up strategic bombing targets in Manchuria and Korea? While you would not get the strategic points, I believe that you could damage/destroy some important industry in both locations. I know that Formosa will now be open for strategic bombing as well as naval bombardments.

Yes, this op opens up all kinds of strat bombing opportunities in Asia and in the southern Home Islands. I'm strat bombing from Hokkaido every three or four days to keep him honest up there. To this point he's keeping a lot of fighters on patrol that way - this turn he has 500+ at Tokyo, 200+ at Ominato, plus lots of others.

Another objective was to allow air transfers of fighters and shorter-legged bombers between Burma and Hokkaido. Up to now, only the Superforts could make the leap between the two. Soon I can transfer hundreds of fighters in short order, which Erik has been able to do all along.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yes, this op opens up all kinds of strat bombing opportunities in Asia and in the southern Home Islands. I'm strat bombing from Hokkaido every three or four days to keep him honest up there. To this point he's keeping a lot of fighters on patrol that way - this turn he has 500+ at Tokyo, 200+ at Ominato, plus lots of others.

Another objective was to allow air transfers of fighters and shorter-legged bombers between Burma and Hokkaido. Up to now, only the Superforts could make the leap between the two. Soon I can transfer hundreds of fighters in short order, which Erik has been able to do all along.

I'm very surprised you never targeted Harbin from your northern stronghold. While it wouldn't have netted any victory points it is the single biggest concentration of manufacturing outside of the HI. You could have wrecked a lot of aircraft production there.

Harbin was targeted early. I knocked out the Emily factory. That was the only aircraft factory there (for some reason).

Just one aircraft factory at Harbin - it makes Emilys. I targeted it early and he rebuilt it. You can see the damage done to other items. Erik kept enough fighters over the base that it wasn't worth coming back to.

Well, if he is keeping fighters there, even if for training and CAP purposes, then they aren't flying other places. Of course, when it opens up for 2E bombers, then it might be worth revisiting - after a very nice night attack on the airfield. Call it Operation We're Back!

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Just one aircraft factory at Harbin - it makes Emilys. I targeted it early and he rebuilt it. You can see the damage done to other items. Erik kept enough fighters over the base that it wasn't worth coming back to.

I apologize for the bad advice predicated on the false assumption that installations are the same between our games.

I have been playing Ironman scenarios for a long time and had not realized until now that the Nips get increased installations to complement their increased forces.

This is what Harbin looks like in scenario 40: