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RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:49 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Statistical models usually provide a "confidence interval"(usually +/-2 SD). These seem to be omitted for presentations to the public.
Interestingly, the National Weather Service does include "probability cones" when they publish hurricane maps. These models, though imperfect, are quite useful for planning purposes..ICU beds, vents, staffing...etc.
I've always been
fascinated by those probability cones.
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:49 pm
by MakeeLearn
Some Walmart, Costco, Target stores barred from selling nonessential items
1 hr ago
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... li=BBnb7Kz
"These stores, which have been allowed to stay open during state lockdowns across the US because they are deemed as "essential" businesses by selling groceries or offering pharmacy services, for example, are now required by law in some parts of the US to remove any nonessential items from their stores or rope off areas of the store so that customers are unable to access these products. "
"The only way that customers can shop for these nonessential items is by using online delivery services or curbside pickup. ""
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:50 pm
by Cap Mandrake
I get my psych meds from a CVS inside a Target.
There are lots of people strolling around looking at place settings and blenders
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:55 pm
by MakeeLearn
Unprecedented nationwide blood studies seek to track U.S. coronavirus spread
Apr. 7, 2020 , 4:05 PM
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04 ... rus-spread
"The best way to figure out how far and wide the virus has spread in a population is to look at blood. Antibodies, blood proteins that the immune system produces to attack pathogens, are viral fingerprints that remain long after infections are cleared. Sensitive tests can detect them even in people who never felt a single symptom of COVID-19.
The World Health Organization has announced an ambitious global effort, called Solidarity II, of so-called serosurveys, studies that look for antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in the population."
"The United States has launched an unprecedented effort as well. One serosurvey is already underway in six metropolitan areas, including New York City, the hardest hit city in the United States. A second, even larger one, is on its heels, and together they should give a strong nationwide effort to track closely how many Americans have become infected as the pandemic unfolds."
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:58 pm
by MakeeLearn
Coronavirus: Boris Johnson 'improving' as intensive care treatment continues
5 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52221724
"Prime Minister Boris Johnson is "improving" after two nights in intensive care with coronavirus, Chancellor Rishi Sunak has said.
The chancellor said Mr Johnson now was "sitting up in bed and engaging positively with the clinical team"."
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:05 pm
by MakeeLearn
Coronavirus: More cities mandate face masks
April 8, 2020, 12:09 pm
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2020 ... ace-masks/
"MIRAMAR, Fla. – Miramar, Plantation and Cutler Bay are among the latest cities ordering people to wear some sort of face covering while in public to prevent the spread of coronavirus.
Miami Beach put a similar order into effect Tuesday, saying that all employees and customers must wear a covering over their mouths and noses when going into grocery stores, pharmacies and restaurants. Key West has ordered that stores with more than 10 people inside must make sure everybody is wearing a mask."
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:12 pm
by RangerJoe
From Canada land (I think!)
Anything can be COVID-19: As pandemic grinds on, doctors find early definitions of disease were too narrow
'We're seeing so many strange presentations of this that basically we're in a state where almost anybody coming in with anything is a potential COVID case'
All across Canada and the U.S., emergency rooms and intensive care units have been split into separate worlds, with patients suspected or diagnosed with COVID-19 on one side and those without on the other.
But as the pandemic has ground on, doctors say, they’ve found it increasingly difficult to rule anyone out as a possible COVID carrier. “We’re just seeing so many strange presentations of this that basically we’re in a state where almost anybody coming in with anything is a potential COVID case,” said Dr. Brett Belchetz, who practises emergency medicine in Toronto.
.
.
.
The range of possible COVID symptoms has already expanded dramatically from the early days of the pandemic. One colleague told Belchetz about a patient who came in with a head laceration. “Everyone assumed it was nothing to worry about,” he said. Head wounds are bread and butter stuff in the ER. But after some detailed questioning, the patient revealed how he got the cut: He had passed out and fallen. He didn’t have a cough or a fever. But he wasn’t getting enough oxygen. He got swabbed. The test came back. He had COVID-19.
https://nationalpost.com/news/anything- ... too-narrow?
There are more cases as well.
Edit: I hope that the picture comes in nicely.

RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:15 pm
by mind_messing
ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Statistical models usually provide a "confidence interval"(usually +/-2 SD). These seem to be omitted for presentations to the public.
Interestingly, the National Weather Service does include "probability cones" when they publish hurricane maps. These models, though imperfect, are quite useful for planning purposes..ICU beds, vents, staffing...etc.
Which is problematic for a number of reasons. I do wish there was better general awareness around what it actually means.
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Already covered.
ORIGINAL: mind_messing
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
We already covered that very thing in posts in here. You are stating and re-stating things, as though novel, that we've already addressed. We know these things.
Then what's the error on the Univ. of Washington predictions, and what is it compared to the true reported value?
Because it's me, I thought I'd see about the official government figures.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus ... the-public
938 deaths yesterday.
Projection for April 7th (as per
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom at this time and date) was 480-2614.
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:16 pm
by RangerJoe
From ernieschwitz on the General side:
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/doede ... er-nyt-lys
For those of you willing to read Danish (Probably a minority).
Danish blooddonors were tested for antibodies, to determine how big a percentage of the population had been infected in Denmark. The number was 22 out of 1487. This, when a few grains of salt have been taken for inaccuracy of testing and other stuff, gives the total of Danes that have been infected to 127000. A number much bigger than thought. 203 Danes have so far died from the virus.
The interesting conclussion is then that the deathrate is as low as 0,16 percent.
Now there is some good news for all of you
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:19 pm
by Canoerebel
The newly revised (as of midnight) projection for the US took into account yesterday's big increase in mortality.
IE, even taking that into consideration, the model projects a drop in mortality from 81k to 60k.

RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:20 pm
by Canoerebel
Worldometers reported UK morality as 938 for today's list (which probably is the recapitulation for yesterday, since the day isn't over) and 786 yesterday (presumably for the day before).
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:24 pm
by HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
More inappropriate.
For the record, since we seem to be self-moderating, that's why I'm tagging these.
And you were apparently voted hall monitor?
What part of self meaning only you is too complex for you?
A shame you can't grasp what you are doing is just as inappropriate.
Sorry, you're incorrect. Nor do you appear to know what self-moderating meant in that context.
Somebody has to keep us children in line, clearly. Somebody needs to play hall monitor to the schoolyard chest-puffing.
What part of 'self' having nothing to do with 'we' is too complex a concept for you?
I understood fully the context in which you were incorrectly applying the term 'self moderating'.
Regardless of any need, your presumption that it needs to be
you assuming the mantle of moderator is what you fail to grasp as being just as inappropriate as the behavior you are assailing.
I'm not, for a minute, disputing the inappropriateness of some posts, including mine, just taking strong exception with your self appointment as sheriff.
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:34 pm
by JohnDillworth
Here's how one "news" source chooses to capsulize the present situation, as of 10 a.m. eastern time.
Well that’s Drudge and he lives off sensational. As for looting. 99% of it has been people breaking into bars and restaurants stealing the top shelf booze. I expect some of them are going to end up getting shot
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:35 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
What part of 'self' having nothing to do with 'we' is too complex a concept for you?
I understood fully the context in which you were incorrectly applying the term 'self moderating'.
Regardless of any need, your presumption that it needs to be you assuming the mantle of moderator is what you fail to grasp as being just as inappropriate as the behavior you are assailing.
I'm not, for a minute, disputing the inappropriateness of some posts, including mine, just taking strong exception with your self appointment as sheriff.
1) "Self" was in reference to the full group, not me (or anyone else) as an individual. "We" are self-moderating is still correct. I don't understand how this is a complex concept.
2) I'm not the only person to have "self appointed" as (a) sheriff. Others have done so, in a far nastier manner than I have done. By your own admission, some of your own posts have been sheriff-like (OK, you didn't just say this in so many words, but they were). Calling me out for providing pushback, even if it is just lampshading a post, is intrinsically hypocritical.
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:37 pm
by Canoerebel
Yeah, Drudge is definitely wildly, irrationally sensational.
ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
Here's how one "news" source chooses to capsulize the present situation, as of 10 a.m. eastern time.
Well that’s Drudge and he lives off sensational. As for looting. 99% of it has been people breaking into bars and restaurants stealing the top shelf booze. I expect some of them are going to end up getting shot
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:42 pm
by obvert
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
From Canada land (I think!)
Anything can be COVID-19: As pandemic grinds on, doctors find early definitions of disease were too narrow
'We're seeing so many strange presentations of this that basically we're in a state where almost anybody coming in with anything is a potential COVID case'
All across Canada and the U.S., emergency rooms and intensive care units have been split into separate worlds, with patients suspected or diagnosed with COVID-19 on one side and those without on the other.
But as the pandemic has ground on, doctors say, they’ve found it increasingly difficult to rule anyone out as a possible COVID carrier. “We’re just seeing so many strange presentations of this that basically we’re in a state where almost anybody coming in with anything is a potential COVID case,” said Dr. Brett Belchetz, who practises emergency medicine in Toronto.
.
The range of possible COVID symptoms has already expanded dramatically from the early days of the pandemic. One colleague told Belchetz about a patient who came in with a head laceration. “Everyone assumed it was nothing to worry about,” he said. Head wounds are bread and butter stuff in the ER. But after some detailed questioning, the patient revealed how he got the cut: He had passed out and fallen. He didn’t have a cough or a fever. But he wasn’t getting enough oxygen. He got swabbed. The test came back. He had COVID-19.
https://nationalpost.com/news/anything- ... too-narrow?
I just read this. How about Abdominal Pain and swelling for two weeks. Got a test cause she also had chills at night. Came back positive for Covid. No other Symptoms.
This is a strange one. The main conclusion is that this is hugely stressful for medical staff as they have to be 100% on all of the time. No down time. No assumptions someone doesn't have it. Even if they come in with a bleeding head wound.
My wife and I both had a severe sinusitis, she one day before me. We haven't seen anyone, touched anyone, been closer than 3-4 meters to anyone (other than passing on a bike with masks on), but we each got a strangely severe and short term cold. Massive inflammation of the sinuses and headache, fatigue, malaise and body aches.
We slept a lot. It got markedly better after only one day, with no aches, no headaches, and has been getting better each day since. Strangely, in spite of direct close contact, our daughter showed no signs.
So was that it? Was that Covid-19 for us?
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:45 pm
by JohnDillworth
Hey Dan, speaking of looting have those “looting hordes from Atlanta” we are hearing about got up your way yet? [:D][:D]
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:49 pm
by mind_messing
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Worldometers reported UK morality as 938 for today's list (which probably is the recapitulation for yesterday, since the day isn't over) and 786 yesterday (presumably for the day before).
Good for Worldometers.
The Univ. of Washington website projects 66k mortality for the UK. I sure hope that's wildly inaccurate (as previously posted this a.m.). On a hopeful note, yesterday's actual mortality came in at 786, about 550 less than projected. Hopefully that trend will continue, prompting revisions that prove much more accurate.
So you've still not told me if the 550 less than projected was within the confidence limits?
RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:50 pm
by Canoerebel
I just found a nugget I thought would be too elusive for retrieval. A memory from more than 15 years ago, but I found it in the dusty archives of the internet. It flies contrary to expectations, and relates to some of our previous discussions, so here it is.
The Drudge Report (for those of you unfamiliar) posts an accumulation of links to news stories from various sources. For much of its existence it was widely perceived as right wing. But UCLA and other schools did a study (in 2003, I just learned) that rated it as centrist, of all things. Other sources (New York Times) received different ratings.
Here's the link to the study:
https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty_p ... eMilyo.pdf
For clarity: I am not a fan of The Drudge Report.

RE: OT: Corona virus
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:50 pm
by MakeeLearn
Mysterious heart damage, not just lung troubles, befalling COVID-19 patients
Apr 6 2020
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200 ... ients.aspx
"In addition to lung damage, many COVID-19 patients are also developing heart problems — and dying of cardiac arrest.
As more data comes in from China and Italy, as well as Washington state and New York, more cardiac experts are coming to believe the COVID-19 virus can infect the heart muscle. An initial study found cardiac damage in as many as 1 in 5 patients, leading to heart failure and death even among those who show no signs of respiratory distress."
"Patients who had heart disease before their coronavirus infections were much more likely to show heart damage afterward. But some patients with no previous heart disease also showed signs of cardiac damage. In fact, patients with no preexisting heart conditions who incurred heart damage during their infection were more likely to die than patients with previous heart disease but no COVID-19-induced cardiac damage."