Matrix Games Forums

War in the Atlantic would be tough to model on the scale of WitP.  The cool thing about WitP is that the mobility of ships and the vast size of the ocean allows players to create feints, breakthroughs, suprise attacks, and other fun stuff.  But if you try land combat on a day-to-day basis in Europe, doesn't it get bogged down in trench warfare?  That was largely my impression of OaoW.  I think the most enjoyable representation of the war in Europe was Avalon Hill's Advanced Third Reich.  Each turn covered three months, so rather than getting bogged down in trench warfare, there were armored breakthroughs and other mayhem.  There was also fun diplomacy, research, and strategic warfare. 
 
I don't know how it would be possible, but the best game ever would combine WitP in the Pacific and A3R in the Atlantic.  So how do you pair a game based on daily turns with one based on three-month turns?  Not possible, I suppose.

They did that I tried to get it a few years ago as I played A3R a lot as a kid.
 
Basically it was advanced 3rd reich in the pacific will all the rules on conquering India/Australia etc
 
The even had rules for global conflict.
 
I bid on a couple of versions of the game but was always outbid I cannot recall the name

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

I still want my BTR <waaaaaaahhhhhhh >

All in good time[8D]

Andy Mac, I have the games you're referring to - Advanced Third Reich, Empire of the Rising Sun, and the combo of the two (which was called Global War 2000 oddly enough - only because it was in development near Y2K).
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But all three games were based on three-month turns (although in Rising Sun you would "slow down" for&nbsp;clashes between carrier task forces).&nbsp;
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What I was suggesting was to somehow match the daily turns of WitP - which are much fun - on the Pacific side of the map, and the three month turns of A3R - which are also much fun - on the Atlantic side.&nbsp; I don't suppose it would be possible or make sense to do so.
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Why in the world hasn't Matrix aquired Avalon Hill and turned its games into computer versions?&nbsp; How about a Matrix version of A3R!

Well... Carrier Force is matching day-long turns with 15-minute tactical phases, so there should be no theoretical problem with scaling up, and having a long strategic turn and a short tactical turn.

ORIGINAL: Curty

If it is the lcu model thats fixed they could perhaps turn their attention to something i yearn for..WAR IN THE ATLANTIC...the war in Europe wuold tend to emphasise more on land combat..it would be a massive game with the unit level of control you have in WITP.

I have never considered buying any of these WWII Europe games because they do not seem to have the level of control i desire in a war game....

What do you guys think?

try "War in Russia", another GG classic free of charge on the Matrix website

ORIGINAL: Terminus

He'd better... And if your "source" is who I think he is, then he doesn't know anything, so don't bother...

please don't think. You are dangerous when you "think".


Calling official as "source" is, well...


Bye.

Shaddap, Pauk...

...... auto censored...

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

War in the Atlantic would be tough to model on the scale of WitP.  The cool thing about WitP is that the mobility of ships and the vast size of the ocean allows players to create feints, breakthroughs, suprise attacks, and other fun stuff.  But if you try land combat on a day-to-day basis in Europe, doesn't it get bogged down in trench warfare?  That was largely my impression of OaoW.  I think the most enjoyable representation of the war in Europe was Avalon Hill's Advanced Third Reich.  Each turn covered three months, so rather than getting bogged down in trench warfare, there were armored breakthroughs and other mayhem.  There was also fun diplomacy, research, and strategic warfare. 

I don't know how it would be possible, but the best game ever would combine WitP in the Pacific and A3R in the Atlantic.  So how do you pair a game based on daily turns with one based on three-month turns?  Not possible, I suppose.

you do get armoured breakthrough's and fast flowing games in one day scenarios in TOAW. Though these are rare but the ones that are around tend to be done at an appropriate scale to allow suitable scope for movement and breakthrough

Recall also this post by David Heath in the earlier teaser thread:

Hi Guys

Say one word and look at all the posts. The will be something special coming along for War In The Pacific but that is all I am going to say now until our press release. This is just to everyone knows we are working on something and that is it. No other information is available at this time.

David

Why in the world hasn't Matrix aquired Avalon Hill and turned its games into computer versions? How about a Matrix version of A3R!

Or, for that matter, ASL?

" Why in the world hasn't Matrix aquired Avalon Hill and turned its games into computer versions? How about a Matrix version of A3R!"

Probably because Hasbro is asking way too much for AH and/or its intellectual property. They purchased that company to get hold of the family/leisure games and have been holding out for mor emoney on selling the wargames (except for ASL, which I'll talk about momentarily).


"Or, for that matter, ASL? "

Curt Schilling's (yes, the ace baseball pitcher) MultiManPublishing purchased the rights to ASL a few years back and has been continuing to develop that game. I don't know if they only own the rights to the paper version and Hasbro has maintained the rights to the digital version, but something tells me that is likely to be the case.

Curt Schilling's (yes, the ace baseball pitcher) MultiManPublishing purchased the rights to ASL a few years back and has been continuing to develop that game. I don't know if they only own the rights to the paper version and Hasbro has maintained the rights to the digital version, but something tells me that is likely to be the case.

Ah, I know of MMP, but I hadn't realized that my hero Curt Schilling, he of The Bloody Sock, had bought it. Schilling also plays EverQuest, or so I gather! He's a smart guy. (In fact, I chuckled the other night when he said that his teammate Papelbon was "not a charter member of Mensa" and thus happier in the role of a short reliever than a starter, who must think about how to pitch to a batter 3-4 times over the course of a game.) Anyway, ASL really calls out for a good computer port, if you ask me.

This is crazy talk. It's probably a Xmas special, nothing more.

Yeah, that must be it...

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

War in the Atlantic would be tough to model on the scale of WitP.  The cool thing about WitP is that the mobility of ships and the vast size of the ocean allows players to create feints, breakthroughs, suprise attacks, and other fun stuff.  But if you try land combat on a day-to-day basis in Europe, doesn't it get bogged down in trench warfare?  That was largely my impression of OaoW.  I think the most enjoyable representation of the war in Europe was Avalon Hill's Advanced Third Reich.  Each turn covered three months, so rather than getting bogged down in trench warfare, there were armored breakthroughs and other mayhem.  There was also fun diplomacy, research, and strategic warfare. 

I don't know how it would be possible, but the best game ever would combine WitP in the Pacific and A3R in the Atlantic.  So how do you pair a game based on daily turns with one based on three-month turns?  Not possible, I suppose.

It's a matter of scale. My favourite land combat games are the OCS series, with 2-4-day turns and 5-mile hexes (or thereabout). That system gets the flavour of ground combat operations right. If you scale up to 60 mile hexes, you need 1-month turns, mobile corps, and infantry armies to get the same flavour. WiTP runs with daily turns, so to model ground combat operations accurately, you have to have in-hex combat and percentage hex control. Then, to account for small islands, you also have to have percentage of the hex that's land, but that's not hard to introduce once you accept the forgoing.

Note that the same issue affects air operations. On a daily basis with 60-mile hexes, the right unit is the sortie, with air units generating variable numbers of sorties based on such factors as support, logistics, morale, airframe availability, aircrew availability, repair backlog, fatigue, air base infrastructure and damage, and leadership.

Then the mesh works correctly with naval TFs, and you get the real flavour of a combined arms campaign.

Pry started working on an official database overhaul some time ago. I think he must have finished and it will be incorporated into a super patch.

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

Pry started working on an official database overhaul some time ago. I think he must have finished and it will be incorporated into a super patch.

Yeah, another database overhaul. Fixes the evils of the world BUT, requires a restart to use .....[:(]

How's the HD project going ?

You'll definitely get the New Game back today. I should get CHS and IS2 installed and set up this afternoon too. I am just pricing up the options for a final fix. It's looking like it might be almost as cheap to get another tower from Dell, but I'll have to do the costings against the hassle of me doing the changeovers using my normal methods of trial and error and much swearing and shouting...

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

You'll definitely get the New Game back today. I should get CHS and IS2 installed and set up this afternoon too. I am just pricing up the options for a final fix. It's looking like it might be almost as cheap to get another tower from Dell, but I'll have to do the costings against the hassle of me doing the changeovers using my normal methods of trial and error and much swearing and shouting...

You could always buy a Gateway - Umm - I mean an Acer... [:D]