Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
On the fence for this one. They only lend half support at range one, and are extremely vulnerable to direct attack. I do think that they should have a maximum range of one at this scale, however, and disagree with Altair's allowing the higher level techs to bump this up to two. can't move on own.

There must be some misunderstanding. Originally Tom tuned ALL AA ranges to 0. My patch contains minor damage upgrade and +1 range for lvl IV AA (so it is only +1, not 2). It is my opinnion, that AA should have ability to shoot adjacent hex. I just wanted to take it slowly at first and test it only on lvl IV Flaks. Besides there is 50% damage penalty for such range increase.

ORIGINAL: Barthheart
3) Naval fighters and naval bombers, maybe even split naval bombers into naval divebombers and torpedo bombers. Give carriers ablility to carry 6 naval air units. Torpedos usless against ground targets.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
There is a definite need for the carrier air to be revamped. As it is now, the carrier air does not intercept, and this causes some pretty screwy results. So, I do agree on a need for splitting naval fighters and naval bombers up, but I think going with a further split into DB's and TB's is overkill. I would rather just reduce the effectiveness of the carrier-based bombers a bit from where it is currently. Not much though. Also, I'm pretty sure that the higher level CV's can already carry more Carrier Air SFT's.

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I agree, that something has to be done with Carrier's ability to defend against air. My first plan was to reduce regular interceptor weight 20->4, to make it possible to use in carriers and fix situation. It is one way, another is to split Carrier Air to different planetypes, but I really belive that simplies solution is always the best. There is no need to create another interceptor, when we can use the existing one. More complex system is not always the best

About airplane ranges:

My current patch contains +1 rangestep for fighters and divebombers compared to original Tom's scenario. According for my testgames, that is mostly the best one. I haven't test level bomber ranges too much. Am I getting it so, that you guys want current level bombers to have longer range than current one is?

ORIGINAL: von altair

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
On the fence for this one. They only lend half support at range one, and are extremely vulnerable to direct attack. I do think that they should have a maximum range of one at this scale, however, and disagree with Altair's allowing the higher level techs to bump this up to two. can't move on own.

There must be some misunderstanding. Originally Tom tuned ALL AA ranges to 0. My patch contains minor damage upgrade and +1 range for lvl IV AA (so it is only +1, not 2). It is my opinnion, that AA should have ability to shoot adjacent hex. I just wanted to take it slowly at first and test it only on lvl IV Flaks. Besides there is 50% damage penalty for such range increase.

Indeed there must. The range for Flak I - Flak IV has been 1, since at least as far back as version 24. I don't have any older versions still on my hard drive, so I don't know what you mean by "originally". I recall that he had downgraded the higher level Flak from range 2, down to range one, quite early in the development of the scenario. Perhaps even with version for the initial release of AT?

I think these ranges would probably model the air war well in West.
 
-Level bomber I starts with range of 12 hexes and increases one hex with each tech level.(West starts with Level II tech)
-Fighter I starts with an attack range of 10 hexes and increases one hex with each tech level. This insures later fighters can reach Berlin.(If it is possible I think the intercept range should start at 3 and increase one hex with each level)
- Dive bombers should stay where they are with a starting attack range of 5 hexes.
 
IMHO[:)]

Early fighter range 10 is imho too much.
German fighters could rech London from northern France with some minutes fight over,
so i think they should have not more than 8 hexes range and intercept of 4 hexes.

Flak should not be too weak in this game.
If a player pays for level IV tech here he should have some payback !

So when is a4 due out??!! [:D]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

So when is a4 due out??!! [:D]

Next patch will be v33a1 ! [;)]

ORIGINAL: seille

Early fighter range 10 is imho too much.
German fighters could rech London from northern France with some minutes fight over,
so i think they should have not more than 8 hexes range and intercept of 4 hexes.

Flak should not be too weak in this game.
If a player pays for level IV tech here he should have some payback !

Early range of 10 probably is to far. Level IV fighter should have attack range of 12 though. That is the minimum range it takes to reach Berlin from England if the west player builds an airfield on the eastern coast of England.

Maybe the tech levels could go like this?

Fighter I- range 8
Fighter II- range 9
Fighter III- range 10
Fighter IV- range 12
Fighter V- range 12
or
Fighter I-range 8
Fighter II-range 10
Fighter III-range 10
Fighter IV- range 12
Fighter V-range 12

Anyway we do it I think we have end up with an attack range of 12 by level IV. (IMO)

Maybe we should make a long range bomber unit?  Something like the level bomber at close to 2x the range and cost.

Looks like the longest bombing range should be 15. This will allow bombing from Saipan to Tokyo.

15 range max souds good.
Late war fighters should be able to escort the bombers from London to Berlin.
 
Level Bomber ranges maybe:
12
13
14
15

Scratch the level V fighter. apparently there is no level V fighter in WAW.[8|]

ORIGINAL: seille

15 range max souds good.
Late war fighters should be able to escort the bombers from London to Berlin.

Level Bomber ranges maybe:
12
13
14
15

That sounds good. Allows for Saipan to Tokoyo run as well.

And for Fighter maybe...
8
10
12
14
Range of forteen allows a level IV fighter to fly escort from London to Berlin. (exactly 14 hexes)

ORIGINAL: IRONCROM

ORIGINAL: seille

15 range max souds good.
Late war fighters should be able to escort the bombers from London to Berlin.

Level Bomber ranges maybe:
12
13
14
15

That sounds good. Allows for Saipan to Tokoyo run as well.

And for Fighter maybe...
8
10
12
14
Range of forteen allows a level IV fighter to fly escort from London to Berlin. (exactly 14 hexes)

Sounds good too.

Now on a different front, so to speak: German - Russian Garrison rules! When the Germans fail to maintian their garison lead the Soviets delcare war... whether they are ready or not!!!!

I think this should be changed to the Soviets can delcare war, if they so choose, and the Germans lose the Eastern Blitz card.

Current game I have going, Germans failed to maintain garrison levels, my Russians declare war in Feb. 1941 and no where near prepared for war, Russian winter bonus happens Germans lose readyness but the Russians can't get to them to take advantage of it! So we're both just staring across the border at each other....

Not too good me thinks.....

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Now on a different front, so to speak: German - Russian Garrison rules! When the Germans fail to maintian their garison lead the Soviets delcare war... whether they are ready or not!!!!

I think this should be changed to the Soviets can delcare war, if they so choose, and the Germans lose the Eastern Blitz card.

Indeed a better solution together with a notification for the players.

  
ORIGINAL: Barthheart
 
Now on a different front, so to speak: German - Russian Garrison rules! When the Germans fail to maintian their garison lead the Soviets delcare war... whether they are ready or not!!!!

I think this should be changed to the Soviets can delcare war, if they so choose, and the Germans lose the Eastern Blitz card.

Current game I have going, Germans failed to maintain garrison levels, my Russians declare war in Feb. 1941 and no where near prepared for war, Russian winter bonus happens Germans lose readyness but the Russians can't get to them to take advantage of it! So we're both just staring across the border at each other....

Not too good me thinks.....

 
Now being the German player in said game and admitting to this mistake [:@], I agree with Vance completely on this.  There are other serious consequences as well - Japan is now at war with China, again before being truely prepared.  The supply embargo suddenly hitting without any build up is crippling.
 
I think the loss of the supplies to Germany from Russia and knowing that Russia could declare war at any point is enough of a reason to maintain the Garrison levels.
 
Cheers
 
Dave

I have the Soviets declare war if the garrison rule is broken because there is no reason for them not too.  It works to the allied advantage if the US is brought in early, if Germany and Japan lose the supply grants.  If the Soviets are not ready, they do not have to prosecute the war.
 
In v33, the Soviets can build conscripts once at war so they have a further benefit.  It is therefore really important for the German player to mind the border.

But this event should be a advantage for Russia. With the current rules it could turn into a advantage for Germany.
Russia should have the declare war option then, Germany should lose the eastern Blitz Card.
Otherwise it´s forcing Russia into a war they are not ready for.

ORIGINAL: seille

But this event should be a advantage for Russia. With the current rules it could turn into a advantage for Germany.
Russia should have the declare war option then, Germany should lose the eastern Blitz Card.
Otherwise it´s forcing Russia into a war they are not ready for.

I agree with you. Thats how it should go. I also think that Garrison event bugs somehow. My current game with Germans and v32a2 has lower garrison value than Russians, but they are not reacting it at all (year -40). Have to look into it a bit closer.