Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: thewood1
If a player wants to send a Soviet squad on a foray out on the left flank, he will lose communications to it and might actually have to send an HQ unit after it to get it back into command.  The squad may even have a chance to melt away, if its inexperienced enough or over all morale is an issue.

Oh, I can just imagine the feedback this would generate... [;)]

The same feedback that BFC got. The CMBB demo had some conscript Russian infantry panicking and refusing to follow orders. Some people screamed bloody murder, but the majority realized if they want realistic morale and experience systems, you live with the somewhat realistic results. Various playing options, to appease the people that wanted their little pixeltruppen to follow every order without fail.

Right, but what if they actually vanished from the map instead of just refusing orders? I imagine we'd have "bug" reports in abundance. I get your general point, I was just poking fun at the specific example.

What's funny is that is actually whats happening with CMSF today.  Whan units panic or rout, they just disappear.  It was reported as bugs until BFC finally let everyone in on the secret.

A point about whatever extra options the game offers is if you don't want to use them then don't. If the game evolves to include a small order string and you don't want the micro management that represents then don't use them. It's that simple.

For those that do like the extra control it's there for them too.

I know guys that give general advance orders in CM and not individual orders for the most part....very few of them but some do. They don't like micro management and that's in a game that's legendary for it.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: thewood1
The same feedback that BFC got. The CMBB demo had some conscript Russian infantry panicking and refusing to follow orders. Some people screamed bloody murder, but the majority realized if they want realistic morale and experience systems, you live with the somewhat realistic results. Various playing options, to appease the people that wanted their little pixeltruppen to follow every order without fail.

I think if there's a choice between more control and less for a computer game I'd go with more.

It's just the philosophy of the orders being simple verbal or signal orders. So they would have to be quickly communicated from the HQ to subunits. I don’t want it to seem like a smorgasbord of elaborate plans telepathically transmitted from the CO to each subunit who then carries them out in prefect choreographed fashion.

We don't yet have waypoints so I don't know how realsitic or unrealistic their use might end up.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
it would be good to have at least 1-2 waypoints as an option. However, I also want to keep the platoon orders system and also add a company layer.

I do want to improve the current system in all respects, but I don't want to lose the philosophy behind it in the process.

I totally agree, I think it could be useful to have some waypoints but I reject the CM's micro management.

I'll ask again because no seems to answer.  How is waypoints more micromanagement than plotting orders every turn/phase from a bank of a dozen different orders, as I asked before?

Edit: Sorry, wrote the opposite of what I meant>

I like the PC series because it is fairly simple. I see people asking for more "stuff" that I would find tedious (not talking about waypoints). Something to concider in your requests, can the AI handle it? Since BFC states that most people play solo, any add on has to be something that the AI can "decide" to use.
 
When I play CM, I never check HQs for bonus and move people around for an advantage. I rarely use arcs. I don't like to pbem people who have learned all the tricks of the game and beat me because of that, instead of beating me with tactics.

I have played the CMxx series to death and when I started playing the PC series I missed the waypoints. But I must confess that I don't miss it anymore since the two game system is different and plays out differently. So I'm one of the gamers that like what we have today and would rather have Matrix/Kosio use resources on other stuff.

But a mount command at the end of a order string would be nice.

Instead of waypoints ... an ETA (estimated time of arrival).

How about a time value (in seconds) at the end of the rubberband. You know, to give us an idea, based on the route the unit takes, an estimate of how long he's gonna get there. The actual time could help, but perhaps an estimate would be more realistic ... The Platoon Commander might have to take his shoes off to count higher than 10 [:D].

But seriously folks ... You think this would be a good compromise instead of waypoints?

Rob

ORIGINAL: Mraah

But seriously folks ... You think this would be a good compromise instead of waypoints?

Rob

definitely

ORIGINAL: Mraah


Instead of waypoints ... an ETA (estimated time of arrival).

How about a time value (in seconds) at the end of the rubberband. You know, to give us an idea, based on the route the unit takes, an estimate of how long he's gonna get there. The actual time could help, but perhaps an estimate would be more realistic ... The Platoon Commander might have to take his shoes off to count higher than 10 [:D].

But seriously folks ... You think this would be a good compromise instead of waypoints?

Rob

What a great idea Rob!

Or it could be different colours for each 40 sec phase. So you would get a rough estimate of how many turns it would take to traverse from the beginning to end.

Cool !! .. there's 2 votes, well 3 with mine. How about it gentlemen? .... Erik you too [;)].

The game already knows how long it's gonna take (see page 41 of the manual).

You can have a Movement Calculator running in the background ... can be turned on/off with the E hotkey so you won't bog down your fps.

I mean, there's a reason why soldier's had to run that 100 meter dash in a certain time ... Cougar_DK could tell you that! (just don't tell us what time you rolled in at) [:)].

The estimated time can be totaly wrong too ... say a variation of +/- 10 seconds, whatever ... the fog of war , eh?

Hmmm, maybe even another Special Ability ... GoodTimer [8D] ... and I don't mean they can drink alot of Vodka!

Anyway ... [:)].

Rob

I can use the system the way it is right now if I had a way to move into/out of buildings or load onto/off of vehicles at the end of a movement order. That's the only thing I think is out of alignment. I don't miss long strings of waypoints to plot.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
I can use the system the way it is right now if I had a way to move into/out of buildings or load onto/off of vehicles at the end of a movement order. That's the only thing I think is out of alignment. I don't miss long strings of waypoints to plot.

Yes, that's another good idea. I think Erik mentioned a few months ago that it would be planned for their Urban Combat design ... considering house-to-house fighting in Stalingrad needs a better system than what we got, simply for proximity of the buildings.

Rob

I'm happy with either a movement to enter/load order or the ability to add an enter/load order at the end of whatever movement order I've already given them. Leaving a building or unloading from a vehicle could be automatic with any kind of movement order and not need anything special.

I see where Erik is promising us the moon......[&o]

Now all I have to do is be a little patient. These things take time. In the meantime I'll just keep playing the game and hopefully getting better at it.

Good Hunting.

MR

ORIGINAL: Bil H



So to sum it up, I would like to see more of an emphasis on the command elements in this game, not less.

Bil

Hi Bil,
I think I get what your saying and agree with you.

Regards,

Greg

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

But your units do have pathing issues

If you space your units properly and use the correct commands you'll have fewer problems.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

ORIGINAL: RocketMan

Waypoints eliminate a lot of micromanagement. With waypoints, I can plot a units orders once, covering multiple turns, and then not have to worry about replotting them when I need them to make a turn.

The fella who introduced me to CM loves the game/system. He's spent thousands of hours playing solo and PBEM. Occasionally, I drop by his house and find him in the midst of a sometimes hours-long, plotting session. As he draws up his move, he periodically taps the appropriate hotkey and the fruit of all his labor is displayed, all those squiggly little lines running this way and that. The intricacy of it all would make John Madden blush.

Anyway, at some point, he goes ahead and runs the turn and views the results. A short while later, he'll go back to work plotting the next turn, whereupon, things tend to get kinda silly. You see, as he views the battlefield, he realizes that things have changed because of his opponents moves, AI or human, and combat results. Because the situation has been altered, he feels compelled to undo/replot at least ninety-percent of what remained of his previous orders.

I tease the guy mercilessly about what I've described above, BTW. I explain that there's really no point in plotting all those ultra-elaborate and detailed moves, only to see them rendered foul with the passing of the sixty-second clock. He has a master's degree in psychology, and appears to recognize the lunacy in it all. We've had more than one good laugh over the whole deal. After all these years, though, I know that after I leave he's gonna open up a fresh pack of cigarettes, knock-down a diet-coke, and do it all over again.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

I think one way-point is good enough to get my units to face the right way at the end of a move.  Other than that I think way-points are an answer in search of a question.