Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

So I challenge Fallout fans like myself to do what I did. Start accepting Fallout 3 for what it is and give it a clean slate and judge it without bias and go into it knowing it is a completly different creature.
I think you will find that it belongs right beside the first two games in the series.

I agree it seems like it will earn its place at the table with the Black Isle games.

It's deep, fun and superior to Oblivion. Put lots of points into Agility and combat becomes virtually turn-based with the VATS system (except quicker and with slow motion impacts). I played Oblivion but didn't love it. So far, 5 hours in, I love F3.

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
Yes it is a action RPG and not turned based. Yes it feels mu.ch like a slow paced RPG.

Can you elaborate on this? How can it not be turn based and yet feel like a slow paced RPG?

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Last time I checked, this one looked like a FPS with a few bolted on turn-based RPG elements. Have they changed it back to a true turn-based, party-based RPG? I loved Wasteland, Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout: Tactics, but what I saw of Fallout 3 made me more concerned than excited. While I enjoy a good FPS from time to time, that's not what this series is about for me.

Say Erik why don't you reverse the trend in some of your wargames like Close Combat and turn that rts game into a turn based game instead? It seems the mainstream keeps ruining great turn based games and turning them into rts games so it'd be nice for a change to see some rts games turn in to turn based games.

This is a great game. Will probably win everybody's "Game of the year" competition.

This game is "Fallout" all the way. Even though you spend most of your time in the 1st person, there is not a single doubt you are in the "Fallout" universe.

All I can say is if you're a fan of the "Fallout" games and you pass this up, it's your loss. This game has a "Fallout" pedigree of the highest order.

Giving my objective (but still opinionated) view of the game after spending 2 hours with it last night I can say I like it better than almost any other A(merican)RPG (like Mass Effect, KOTOR, Arena series) I have played.

Yes they did remove some of what the original Fallout was but in all honesty there was never a chance Fallout 3 was going to be an isometric turn based game.

Overall though in my mind it works going to a first person view since Fallout was always about you the former Vault dweller. While other people may join your group they were never controllable and for the most part ended up being bullet shields (at least in 1...never got the chance to play 2 but may have to pick it up on Steam someday soon).

I think it also helps get you into the role a lot better than the first Fallout based on how the new game begins.

One detrimate I have heard is that the end game requires combat which means you can't completely ignore your combat skills like you could in the first. That said, in the first there were certian quests you would have to ignore completly if you did not have combat skills.

If anyone is interested I'll post up again in a day or two once I log another 4-6 hours or so.

However, if I had to choose between F3 not being made or being made in it's current iteration I'll take the game any day of the week.

Does it have good writing? Good descriptions of terrain and objects?

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
Yes it is a action RPG and not turned based. Yes it feels mu.ch like a slow paced RPG.

Can you elaborate on this? How can it not be turn based and yet feel like a slow paced RPG?

If you play the game like Halo or any other FPS you will die. Many many times. Or at the very least you will waste ammo and stim packs needlessly.
You must approach combat with a careful tactical approach. It is always best to use the terrian and cover to your advantage and proceed slowly and try and get the drop on enemies.

Then there is the VATS system. You hit the right bumper on your controller and the VATS system comes up and the game pauses. Each area of a enemies body is displayed along with your % chance of hitting that body part. You input attacks on these body parts and this uses action points. You queue up your attacks until your action points are gone. The the game switces to a cinematic camara angle and in slow motion your attacks are carried out. You can see your misses and your hits in this fashion. The hits when critical rip off body parts and heads or for explosive attacks turn your enemies into a misty spray

It feels sort of like Fallout Tactics (which I liked a lot) you get to run around and explore and interect with the world in real time and when it comes time for combat you can either choose real time or with the press of a button resolve it by turn phases.

About 65% of the time I use the Vats system
I only use real time when I face very weak enemies that I know I can slaughter easily or I get such a good drop on them from short range than I can lay into them with a high chance of hitting them for good damage.

It is a very good combo of real time mode keeping things moving at a nice pace and when you need it turn based kicking in for some very fun tactical combat

The writing I do not think is quite up to Mass Effect quality (which has the best story and writing of any RPG I have yet played besides Planscape Torment) but is still very good.
This is more than made up for by the combat and graphics and sound and quality and design of the world.

As far as I am concerned the American RPG industry is on a roll right now while Japanese RPG makers continue to churn out the same form factor games that I played on the SNES and PS1.

One thing I have noticed is that the VATS systems seems majorly overpowered compared to the original game.

Starting out in 1 I'd be lucky to get a 70% headshot chance at close range...here it seems like medium range regularly gives you 70-80% chances.

Thanks for the additional info, I also liked Fallout Tactics. So far these reports are much more encouraging than I could have hoped. I'll have to add F3 to my wish list.

What about adding turn based Close Combat to your list?

ORIGINAL: jamus34

One thing I have noticed is that the VATS systems seems majorly overpowered compared to the original game.

Starting out in 1 I'd be lucky to get a 70% headshot chance at close range...here it seems like medium range regularly gives you 70-80% chances.

Maybe I suck but so far I have found the game diffucult going. I wandered into downtown Washington and was quickly dispatched by Super Mutants. I tried it three more times and even though I could kill a few the mini guns and rocket launchers eventualy did me in.
I will have to come back with more ammo for my good weapons and improved armor.

Nah Fallschirm, that wasn't your fault. You probably encountered former politicians-turned-mutants directly emerged from the nuke shelters.[:D]

ORIGINAL: jamus34

One thing I have noticed is that the VATS systems seems majorly overpowered compared to the original game.

Starting out in 1 I'd be lucky to get a 70% headshot chance at close range...here it seems like medium range regularly gives you 70-80% chances.

Even in the original game the accuracy seemed to be too big - I could get 75% on medium range with 25% Small Guns skill and Hunting Rifle. Now 70% headshots...

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

What about adding turn based Close Combat to your list?

Yeah. An innovative turn-based Close Combat on hexagonal map with icons instead of individual soldiers would be a lot more immersive than that ancient real-time mode.

ORIGINAL: Old Eagle101

This is a great game. Will probably win everybody's "Game of the year" competition.

Agreed... I'm very pleasantly surprised, particularly that they DID manage to keep it 'Fallout'. That said, having spent my thirty quid and endured Far Cry 2 just long enough to realise it's a pile of overhyped cr*p, just about anything would look good!

Fallout died when they lost the GURPS licence. SPECIAL is crap when compared to GURPS (though it's still the best thing I saw in cRPGs - but the combat is much worse than in Jagged Alliance 2 which is the closest thing to GURPS I saw on PC).
And Fallout 3 combat is completely irrelevant to the original concept of recreating the tabletop game on computer.

My conclusion after 2h of playing:

Shooter/RPG-Hybrid with stability issues, mediocre graphics and high gore level for the mainstream crowd. Tomorrow I'm going to bring it back to my local video-store, happy that I only payed for rent and didn't purchase the game.

ORIGINAL: Lützow

My conclusion after 2h of playing:

Shooter/RPG-Hybrid with stability issues, mediocre graphics and high gore level for the mainstream crowd.

I am tempted to ask how many games you have encountered that a) have better graphics than FO3 and b) weren't targeted at that awful 'mainstream crowd' ? [;)]

It is buggy; I've had more crashes with this in a couple of days than with the release version of Clear Sky, which is saying something.

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
Fallout died when they lost the GURPS licence.

Huh? '1' and '2' are a couple of the best PC RPG's ever. I'm not saying a GURPS game would have been worse, and it might even have been better, but to say the franchise 'died' is ludicrous.

ORIGINAL: Lützow

My conclusion after 2h of playing:

Shooter/RPG-Hybrid with stability issues, mediocre graphics and high gore level for the mainstream crowd. Tomorrow I'm going to bring it back to my local video-store, happy that I only payed for rent and didn't purchase the game.

Are you positive you rented Fallout 3? Because Fallout 3 is in no way a shooter. Like Fallschirmjager says if try and play it as a shooter you're dead meat. This game is no hybrid. It is a total RPG. I got the strategy guide today, it's almost 500 pages. You can play this game for years and still not see everything.

The game is almost exactly like 1 and 2 except instead of a 2D sprite you have a 3D char in a 3D world. It's Fallout all the way.

Bad graphics?? Are you sure you rented Fallout3?

ORIGINAL: Old Eagle101
Are you positive you rented Fallout 3? Because Fallout 3 is in no way a shooter. Like Fallschirmjager says if try and play it as a shooter you're dead meat. This game is no hybrid. It is a total RPG. I got the strategy guide today, it's almost 500 pages. You can play this game for years and still not see everything.

The game is almost exactly like 1 and 2 except instead of a 2D sprite you have a 3D char in a 3D world. It's Fallout all the way.

Bad graphics?? Are you sure you rented Fallout3?

The V.A.T.S (pseudo turnbased combat system) only applies to the player toon, while enemies always attack in real time and close foes or small mobs (i.e. dogs, rats, etc.) are hard to target if you don't switch to 1st-person. I wouldn't complain if I could play from a zoomed out perspective and make it turnbased all the way but that's impossible here. F3 indeed took over a lot elements from it's predeccessor but the gameplay is rather about action than tactic.

About graphics: I play with max settings and high screen resolution but grass textures already blur within 10 m distances. Altogether it doesn't look better to me than a 3-years-old STALKER and in addition I get occassional crashes for which I blame the copy protection since I got a freshly installed Vista system here.