Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: jackx
It's a decent game, and has some great mods, it's just not a wargame at all. That said, how do you do a serious ancient wargame? For battles, I can kinda see it working out, but for anything beyond that, you're pretty much off into conjecture-land as far as I can tell...

The same way you do serious wargame of any other sort. For battles the excellent HPS games are perfectly 'serious' in that respect, as were the Great Battles series (although they were paper/counter conversions). For a WitP style strategic wargame (as opposed to a 'strategy game'), I suspect nobody has done one as it just wouldn't sell well enough.

Possibly, but even if "War in the Mediterranean: Punic War Edition" would be sure to sell well, how would you go about creating it in the first place when you mostly have huge gaps where you'd need tons of (reliable) data?
To go beyond something shallow like R:TW, you need a lot more information, and the further you go back into history, the less of that tends to be available.


But the thread is about battle games, and these should be less affected (though getting reliable OOBs and combat models probably isn't easy either), so it's not that much of an issue.

But is Commands and Colors Ancients to easy for a long time board gamer? I want a historical game that is fun covering this period.

If you like railroad games you should check out a little game called Rails Across America which is a lot of fun.

Madgamer

A game's reception in one's mind and willingness to play is a total thing. You may say you do not mind one thing or another but something can keep you from playing the game. It is something that happens to everyone.

Madgamer

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

But is Commands and Colors Ancients to easy for a long time board gamer? I want a historical game that is fun covering this period.

Absolutely not. I'm a very, very long time board gamer. I play Advanced Squad Leader on a weekly basis and that is about as complex as you can get. But I love to play Commands and Colors Ancients. It is a very fun game. It is a pure pleasure to play. I wouldn't say it is "easy" although it is a fairly straight forward, un-complex game. There is a slight learning curve, but once you grasp the traits of each unit type, and understand the card play, the game really becomes addicting. I wouldn't call it an extremely historical game, but it gives a good feeling for the basics of ancient warfare. You can play a complete battle in an hour, but that hour is solid competitive, multi-option, game play.

All I can say is, if you are looking for a FUN ancients game, then this is the one to play. The only draw-back is....putting the stickers on the blocks. But that is well worth the effort when you start playing the game.

Do any of the Ancient Games have decent Campaigns?

I dislike one off battles as you have less concern to sell your troops dearly.

Lee

FYI, we are planning to release Field of Glory here as well once it's ready. I've been testing the beta for a couple of months and I have to say it's looking outstanding and coming together nicely. Visually it looks like Tin Soldiers, but the battlefield strategy is IMHO better and reflects the period well. Plenty of content as well, good selection of battles.

I've had my eye on that one....any idea on release date of it Mr. Rutins? But, I plan to buy it from NWS if they are going to have it because I want a printed manual or is that yet another one you aren't going to print a manual for?

Thanks Dave I ordered the game. Sounded like what I want. Did some research. Looks good.[:)]

I don't know, maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just weird like that, but the HPS Ancient Warfare series graphics actually looks pretty good IMO.Definitely looks 10,000 times better than Campaign 1776 and Panzer Campaigns.

Wargaming the period offers the basic problem of how to portray all this in a rule set. The era certainly saw big battles such as Charles Martel's defeat of Adb-ur-Raaman at Tours, where over 100,000 men may have fought, or Yarmuk, where Khaled ibn al-Walid's Islamic force trounced a Byzantine army that may have numbered a quarter-million men. Rules like DBM, Tactica, or Armati are suitable for gaming large battles like this. But the essential feel isn't there for the smaller fights that make up the stuff of bardic verse. Many of the armies of Dark Age Europe were built around the personal followings of a warlord, what the Roman historian Tacitus called the commitatis. These groups may have numbered a few hundred at the most. In many cases they were far less numerous. The way the societies were structured allowed only a small proportion, the nobility, to bear arms. Larger forces would be made up by banding together the personal forces of lesser warlords under the leadership of a higher lord, prince, or king – though each warrior exercised personal loyalty to his lord, not necessarily to the king, and there was no concept of "country" or patriotism. Right or wrong, warriors fought for their lord and his battles were theirs. For gaming this kind of fighting, skirmish type rules work the best – especially rules that allow you to give special characteristics to individual figures who represent the warlord or some of his notable warriors. Warhammer Ancient Battles (WAB), Pig Wars, and BattleLust all provide this feel. All three rule sets use "units" to organize the forces. Pig Wars and BattleLust can be played with one unit per side allowing a relatively small numbers of figures (20 or less per side). WAB uses armies of certain points sizes that are made up of several units and so may require a hundred or more figures per side.
_________________________________________________________________________Pergola Utah Timber Frame  missourihomeowner.com

I found Tin Soldiers Caesar tedious and boring and plays more like an abstracted game of chess than an ancients wargame. iMagic's Great Battles series are far better if you can find a copy.

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
I don't know, maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just weird like that, but the HPS Ancient Warfare series graphics actually looks pretty good IMO.Definitely looks 10,000 times better than Campaign 1776 and Panzer Campaigns.

They suck IMHO - and I am a fan of the system. Or at least the 3D graphics do - which doesn't really matter as, like with every other HPS game, I never use them!

You must have hated all of the 80's to mid 90's then Herston as everything was 8bit or 16bit graphics and stickman was pretty much what you got in most wargames. Did you ever play AH or SSI's Panzer Jagd? How about Kampfgruppe? or Battlegroup? What about Typhoon of Steel or Panzer Strike? How about all those early SSG WW2 wargames? Then there was the Wargame Construction Set totally 8 bit graphics good old stickmen type play. How you can complain about todays HPS graphics compared to those days is just beyond me.

ORIGINAL: killroyishere
How you can complain about todays HPS graphics compared to those days is just beyond me.

Perhaps because I'm not comparing them to 'those days'! [8|] I'm comparing them to the standard, even for Indie products, these days. And I'm not 'complaining' at all; as I said I always use the 2D alternative anyway.. and still would even if the 3D graphics were improved.

And I'm not 'complaining' at all;

Then ummm tell me what this line is?

They suck IMHO

Reads like complaining to me. [:D]

Also who's standards?

I'm comparing them to the standard

I don't know of any gaming laws that were setup to setup 'standards' for graphics? When did they come about? Who are these people? Who gave them that kind of authority? I want to give them my 2 cents about it! [:'(]

@milkweg

iMagic's Great Battles series are far better if you can find a copy.

I like the iMagic series of Great Ancient Battles but I wouldn't agree they are better just a different style of play. I enjoyed both the GAB's and the Tin Soldiers series. I also liked the Tin Soldiers series because it was more chesslike and I didn't miss any of the action like one does playing the iMagic series.

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Then ummm tell me what this line is?

They suck IMHO

Reads like complaining to me. [:D]

Then you should read more carefully. It's an opinion, not a complaint.

Also who's standards?

Mine, based on a general awareness of the current quality of graphics in the industry, as being the only ones relevant to myself. If your standards are different, and you believe HPS 3D graphics are state-of-the-art, then good for you!

Then you should read more carefully. It's an opinion, not a complaint

Well I see it as an opinionated complaint.[:D]

Mine, based on a general awareness of the current quality of graphics in the industry, as being the only ones relevant to myself. If your standards are different, and you believe HPS 3D graphics are state-of-the-art, then good for you!

I see so then you are not using any organized authority just an opinionated subjective response to graphics. Thus I would say that makes you shallow and a racist toward graphics. [:'(] This is the 21st century time to come out of that shell an accept all things for what they are and not for what you want them to be. peace love & harmony. [8D]

I think 99.99% of people would agree that HPS graphics engine is incredibly out of date by any standard.