Matrix Games Forums

Keep in mind, Enhanced used Mike Woods' Cost Calculator in the OOB Editor to re-price all units. Additionally, we reverted all the infantry units to having no FC or RgF values, as the original game intended. Both of these caused the average cost of units to drop much lower than the old 'vanilla' prices, which this campaign was built on. So the points given for the core, if they haven't been changed (I haven't looked at it to be certain, but I suspect not), are based on the more expensive 'vanilla' units, not the newer 'reduced-cost' ones.

End result: you can buy a bigger/better core force in Enhanced than you could in 'vanilla'.

I suspected as much. I play the campaign often, and used to give myself a couple of extra points to have a chance (which indicates mebbe they were too low, or I suck). I've noticed I didn't need to do that the last couple of times I started it. Thanks Kev.




Goblin

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Your force was weak, no argument. But with upgrades later, I think you will be bored out of your skull. The two platoons of PzIVD's are in addition to the two good tank platoons, so they are icing on the cake, even without an upgrade. Alby did suggest a core, and all of those units are in '08 too, are they not?

I just saw the screens of your core, which is why I asked. It's not a big deal, but believe you like a challenge, which was why I was confused.




Goblin

Now, I'm confused, too.

As far as I could tell, Alby's core was (and is) simply a collection of units chosen arbitrarily from the 2010 OOB to test that OOB. In other words, it's just a test core with a hodge-podge mish-mash of units in it so Alby could test the 2010 OOBs.

Regarding the kind of core that can be bought with the 2009 ENH prices (I have 2009 installed now), I don't know either. I bought what I thought would be a challenging core.

Basically, now I'm just confused. At this point I'm starting to think that I should just scrap the whole thing and stop playing.

Not my intention. Curiousity prompted my question, which Kevin partially answered. Please continue.


Goblin

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Your force was weak, no argument. But with upgrades later, I think you will be bored out of your skull. The two platoons of PzIVD's are in addition to the two good tank platoons, so they are icing on the cake, even without an upgrade. Alby did suggest a core, and all of those units are in '08 too, are they not?

Goblin

all the units in my core are indeed in 08 and 09. I just started playing the campaign using MY updated set of oobs, its one way I test things out, not just updated OOBs, but also older Camapigns to see what needs updating, but I did buy the units with the intention of playing it as I would if I was just playing it to play it...does that make sense?
[;)]

As for cost, In most cases we tried to adjust the starting points to account for cheaper Enhanced units, but it wasnt an exact science as Flashfyre will explain...[:D]
....dont recall if this one got adjusted down or not.


heres what the campaign "suggests"

"I suggest collecting good Tank Platoons and attain one regular Infantry Company. You will need the Infantry! Infantry transport will be provided for throughout campaign. There is no need to purchase transport unless specified in mission orders."

It doesnt say how many tank platoons, nor what to use if you have extra money.
so my "core" didnt follow this exactly but what the heck..Instead of a Infantry company I got different platoons and as opposed to a another tank platoon, I got flamers and stugs..
does everyone buy exactly what the designer 'suggests' evrytime??

Adjusting the core force purchase points for older campaigns is more than just reducing the points to an amount sufficient to buy the original suggested mix; those suggested cores were based on the combat abilities of the units used in the campaign scenarios, to give the player an idea as to what they would need to succeed in the campaign. Now that all those units have been Enhanced, their combat abilities are different (some better, some worse), which makes the outcome of each scenario less predictable. Scenarios that in 'vanilla' are challenging may, in Enhanced, become nearly impossible. Or, they become cake-walks. Thus, a stronger core force may be required to win, or a weaker one may be a better challenge. And determining all this means re-testing the campaign, as a campaign, not just as a series of scenarios. Notes need to be taken as to which battles prove too hard for the 'base' core force, and which, if any, are too easy.Then the campaign itself has to be re-built to correct these deficiencies.

And all of this is why we never intended Enhanced to "replace" the 'vanilla' game OOBs; we figured designers would build new scenarios and campaigns using the Mod, rather than spend time re-editing older stuff.

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

And all of this is why we never intended Enhanced to "replace" the 'vanilla' game OOBs; we figured designers would build new scenarios and campaigns using the Mod, rather than spend time re-editing older stuff.

heheh you and I both spent alot of time editing older stuff....
Long Long Road to Victory, Russian Steel, Desert Fox, Das Reich...to name a few of the BIGGER ones.....all your old scenarios........
But I think you mean Re editing AGAIN right?
eh what the hell, being layed off, I got nothin better to do...[:D]

and thank god for Dutchiexx, (and a few others) who continually pump out new Enhanced scenarios.
I want more Campaigns!!
[:D]

Goblin,
 
I'd be happy to play any core that doesn't have SS in it.  I want you to build a core for me.  I'll happily play any core you come up with (just no SS).  Give me your recommended core.

I would buy SS. You could go through and delete the 'SS' off of them, then they aren't SS.




Goblin

Fair enough.  I'll rename them.  Give me a core.

Goblin??

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Goblin??

A Goblin is silent??
[&:]



[:D]

Didn't see this until now. My core would be the recommended core, with the additional units listed in my previous post.
 
 
 
Goblin

Okay, how is this core? 19 fewer units than my previous core. 9 fewer formations than my previous core. Only 8 tanks instead of the 20 in my previous core.

If this core is acceptable, then I will rename the SS company into something else (I'll probably just call them grenadiers) and get started. EDIT: But I'm not going to get started until a core is created that is deemed acceptable.

Is this core acceptable?

Alby, yea or nay?
Goblin, yea or nay?
FlashFyre, yea or nay?
Anybody else, yea or nay?

Why ask me? I don't have a horse in this race, so to speak....the core is fine if that's what you want to play with.
I will say that I personally would not have chosen the "best" of the various units, but would have started with those a little "shop-worn", if you will. Such as taking PzKpfw III J(s) tanks instead of the "new" PzKpfw IV G models, and regular infantry vs. Waffen SS troops. But then, I usually choose forces that were more common during the war, rather than always taking the "best".

Flashfyre,
 
I don't think I can build a core for this campaign.  That is why I wanted somebody else to build a core for me. 
Somebody please give me a core.

Okay. Here is yet another attempt. I think this will pass the Flashfyre test. (Don't know if it will pass the Goblin test, but I think not.)

My FlashFyre estimate:

1x Weapons company (weak)
1x Kampfgruppe (one good tank platoon, the rest is pretty much trash)
1x Mech Recon platoon
1x SturmPionieres platoon
Misc headquarters stuff (F.O., 2x ammo crates, command Stoewer 40, 2x prime movers)

So, now tell me what is wrong with this core so I can throw it away and try again...

Goblin,

Which core do you prefer, post #53 or post #56?

Goblin??

Um... excuse me, but I have one question.
What exactly are you trying to prove here?

I just don't get why you want someone else
to pick your core force.  You have enough
experience to do that yourself, right?