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If they get sunk, the withdrawal no longer applies.

That's bad the player should be required to take out at least half of equivalent tonnage or instead the sinking of units that should have get out of scenario but don't, because they aren't anymore there should get a penalty. In scenario a player can start gamey tactics of risking those that retire much more than those that will remain.

ORIGINAL: Dili

If they get sunk, the withdrawal no longer applies.

That's bad the player should be required to take out at least half of equivalent tonnage or instead the sinking of units that should have get out of scenario but don't beacause they aren't anymore there should get a penalty. In scenario a player can start gamey tactics of risking those that retire much more than those that will remain.

True. If I'm going to lose a BB to withdrawal it would be preferable to send it on a suicide mission to at least take a few enemy vesels with it.

ORIGINAL: Dili

If they get sunk, the withdrawal no longer applies.

That's bad the player should be required to take out at least half of equivalent tonnage or instead the sinking of units that should have get out of scenario but don't, because they aren't anymore there should get a penalty. In scenario a player can start gamey tactics of risking those that retire much more than those that will remain.

If I were the Jap player I certainly would accept the allied player tossing a CA at me to sink because it was scheduled to withdraw. Be "gamey" like that on me any time you like [:D]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Dili

If they get sunk, the withdrawal no longer applies.

That's bad the player should be required to take out at least half of equivalent tonnage or instead the sinking of units that should have get out of scenario but don't beacause they aren't anymore there should get a penalty. In scenario a player can start gamey tactics of risking those that retire much more than those that will remain.

True. If I'm going to lose a BB to withdrawal it would be preferable to send it on a suicide mission to at least take a few enemy vesels with it.

But you still have to pay the points for any losses..You guys sound like some officers I saw being zipped into bags once.
(They had that attitude toward "short-timers".)

ORIGINAL: m10bob

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Dili



That's bad the player should be required to take out at least half of equivalent tonnage or instead the sinking of units that should have get out of scenario but don't beacause they aren't anymore there should get a penalty. In scenario a player can start gamey tactics of risking those that retire much more than those that will remain.

True. If I'm going to lose a BB to withdrawal it would be preferable to send it on a suicide mission to at least take a few enemy vesels with it.

You guys sound like some officers I saw being zipped into bags once.
(They had that attitude toward "short-timers".)

This is a GAME. I have to confess I sort of resent being compared to an officer who takes that attitude with real human beings..if that's what you are getting at. [:@]

Also, many of the ships with withdrawal dates are scheduled to return, so losing them in preference to withdrawing them is just being short sighted... 

ORIGINAL: Dili

If they get sunk, the withdrawal no longer applies.

That's bad the player should be required to take out at least half of equivalent tonnage or instead the sinking of units that should have get out of scenario but don't, because they aren't anymore there should get a penalty. In scenario a player can start gamey tactics of risking those that retire much more than those that will remain.

Considered that. Unfortunately it opens up force balancing with the unknown Atlantic Fleet units. If we lose the unit they asked for, would they want another or would the loss reduce one fleet in relation to another?

We understand that some players will cheat and take extra risks with ships withdrawal. But what the hell, if they're cheaters, scrum.

ORIGINAL: JWE

Awesomerrific JWE!!!!!!! Thanks for the dedication!!!!!!!!![:)]

ORIGINAL: Dili

If they get sunk, the withdrawal no longer applies.

That's bad the player should be required to take out at least half of equivalent tonnage or instead the sinking of units that should have get out of scenario but don't, because they aren't anymore there should get a penalty. In scenario a player can start gamey tactics of risking those that retire much more than those that will remain.

[/quote]
Bull. There wasn't squat in the Pacific that was withdrawn because it was necessary (except for the US APs for North Africa) and there was sufficient tonnage remaining at home to make up for Pac losses.

Pac deployment was a function of decisions made in Washington/London. There was a whole world of vessels to play with and the Combined Chiefs went with normative op requirements.

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

ORIGINAL: JWE

Awesomerrific JWE!!!!!!! Thanks for the dedication!!!!!!!!![:)]

Dude !! Thank you. I love this stuff !! Anything and everything I can do, I will. I am so glad you like. Just wait till you see the rest of the stuff in AE !!

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Dili

If they get sunk, the withdrawal no longer applies.

That's bad the player should be required to take out at least half of equivalent tonnage or instead the sinking of units that should have get out of scenario but don't, because they aren't anymore there should get a penalty. In scenario a player can start gamey tactics of risking those that retire much more than those that will remain.

Considered that. Unfortunately it opens up force balancing with the unknown Atlantic Fleet units. If we lose the unit they asked for, would they want another or would the loss reduce one fleet in relation to another?

We understand that some players will cheat and take extra risks with ships withdrawal. But what the hell, if they're cheaters, scrum.

Considering most of those rl adjustments to the oobs were made in light of Midway and the subsequent lessening of the emergency-like feel in the PTO, the game removals are as much fantasy as if they were random. If Midway had been won by KB I imagine the arrival dates would be sooner and the number of removals lessened. But if you have to chose a system, I guess penalizing the Allies for history is better than penalizing them based upon speculation.

The ships look great. I wish I could find a case to have them house colors, but I can't.

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk
Considering most of those rl adjustments to the oobs were made in light of Midway and the subsequent lessening of the emergency-like feel in the PTO, the game removals are as much fantasy as if they were random. If Midway had been won by KB I imagine the arrival dates would be sooner and the number of removals lessened. But if you have to chose a system, I guess penalizing the Allies for history is better than penalizing them based upon speculation.

Arrivals and removals have nothing whatever to do with Midway. Most withdrawals are Brits, and happen independent of what went on in CenPac. US withdrawals are a function of the North African ops, and have no relation whatever to Midway.

Withdrawals are a function of what was happening elsewhere in the war, and have no bearing whatever on what happened in-theater.

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk
The ships look great. I wish I could find a case to have them house colors, but I can't.

But they will be available in house colors soon as the game comes out - with the same bitmap numbers - so you can smile and dial as you swap them in and out. We even got some azul (baby blue) hulls, and some buff funnel bottoms, some Burns/Union colors, and some Royal Mail stacks. They be beautiful - woof !

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk
Considering most of those rl adjustments to the oobs were made in light of Midway and the subsequent lessening of the emergency-like feel in the PTO, the game removals are as much fantasy as if they were random. If Midway had been won by KB I imagine the arrival dates would be sooner and the number of removals lessened. But if you have to chose a system, I guess penalizing the Allies for history is better than penalizing them based upon speculation.

Arrivals and removals have nothing whatever to do with Midway. Most withdrawals are Brits, and happen independent of what went on in CenPac. US withdrawals are a function of the North African ops, and have no relation whatever to Midway.

Withdrawals are a function of what was happening elsewhere in the war, and have no bearing whatever on what happened in-theater.

Agree to disagree. Ship transfers don't happen in a vacuum and the effect that Midway had in ending Japanese expansion certainly counted in the decision making process. The Brits were, if anything, most affected by the events in CentPac. Up until Midway the Eastern Fleet was constantly reinforced even to the detriment of operations in the Med. The British even asked to use the Wasp in 4-5/42 for ac reinforcement of Malta because of a lack of carriers there. After Midway the Eastern Fleet had ships constantly withdrawn. The Formidable and Indomitable left the theater very shortly after Midway for the Med and Torch. If the IJN, more specifically KB, still constitutes a threat there's no guarantee those withdrawals happen.

I guess I should have limited my comments to withrawals of capital ships in my prior post.

Yes the issues was more landing ships for Torch and Sicilia in USN.

Btw how is that appears a CV Midway if there is no Midway? it should be renamed to CV Acme [:D]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Btw how is that appears a CV Midway if there is no Midway? it should be renamed to CV Acme [:D]

How do St. Lo, Anzio, Guadalcanal, Bougainville, Cape Esperance, Kwajalein and other Casablanca class CVEs appear if their namesake battles aren't fought. [;)]

That does it... just remove those ships from the OOB. It's gamey for the americans to get ships named for non-existent battles. They'll just have to do without... [;)]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

LCU's are not under players control they are removed automatically.

You cannot stop them leaving and they will leave from any base its all automatic.

Thanks Andy. That will make things much easier to manage for LCU's. Marching units out of the jungle just to withraw them would be a headache . . .

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

ORIGINAL: JWE

Awesomerrific JWE!!!!!!! Thanks for the dedication!!!!!!!!![:)]

Dude !! Thank you. I love this stuff !! Anything and everything I can do, I will. I am so glad you like. Just wait till you see the rest of the stuff in AE !!

I just wish there was at least one sceen SOMEWHERE in the game that allowed us a close up of these works of art. FANTASTIC WORK!!