Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: JWE
a logistics puke

Yep, that would be Major Mike right there. [:D]

ORIGINAL: Shark7
The hubs are usually pretty easy to find. Just look for a base with Zero's as thick as a swarm of flies near a cow pie...there is your supply hub. [:D]

I don't usually garrison them to heavily in LBA actually, mostly because I make sure they are well behind enemy lines. As things deteriorate, that certainly changes.

The reality on the ground is that there simply aren't very many ports that can in a reasonable time load and ship large quantities of fuel and resources.

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Liquid toting is going to be way more important than resource toting IMO. Yusen N and Kyushu are probably going to be my supply ships taking fuel and supplies out to my main bases. Saves me using tankers or AO for that job.

Main bases? That's only 26k fuel for a load. I think you'll have to supplement that somewhat.

Only the initial setup. I do realize that will require a large fleet to make the initial supply/fuel dump. But these ships are fine for maintaining levels.

Since someone posted that Japan had enough resources for years and could therefore use its AKs elsewhere I would like to point to the following facts:



Now I don't know how much automatic transfer there is between the HIs (when I made the clustering it was said to be negligable). But I really would suggest that you get into resource hauling immediatly.

And another interesting table from WitpStaff is the following one (new post as only one picture allowed per post).

It is the Ship Classes display showing the fuel efficiency of the individual classes. The entries in the "Specials" column mean

Oil Miles/Fuel point
Cargo Miles/Fuel point
Troop Miles/Fuel point
(the latter two not really being applicable for the tankers at display)

Now if you look for example at the Type-1 TS it has a fuel efficiency of 17000 OM/F. Since each hex is 40 miles and you typically have to travel to a base and back again (one way empty) when hauling fuel we can easily calculate that if Type-1 TS is sent more than ca. 200 hexes it will consume as much fuel as it transports. (Note that it will not draw fuel from its transport tanks so you might have to refuel it on the way).
Same of course holds for AKs,.... . It is just not so nice for explaining as they don't transport what they consume.

So use the most efficient ships for the long hauls!

Woos, I don't think I understand.

Type-1 TS has endurance of 4000 nm, fuel capacity of 280 t, and liquid capacity of 1250 t. If she goes ca. 200 hexes, that's ca. 8000 nm, and that's only a consumption of 560 t. What am I missing?

ORIGINAL: JWE

Woos, I don't think I understand.

Type-1 TS has endurance of 4000 nm, fuel capacity of 280 t, and liquid capacity of 1250 t. If she goes ca. 200 hexes, that's ca. 8000 nm, and that's only a consumption of 560 t. What am I missing?

I think you calculate one way, and Woos also integrated the way back (assuming it is done empty).

So if you travel 200nm with liquid, you will also have to do the same 200nm empty to move oil again.
And in this case, 560t consumption will become 1120 t. quite the same t. you shipped. [;)]

At least, I understood his example like that [8D]

Yikes, something else I hadn't thought about. The small TKs, over longer distances, will actually burn more fuel than they deliver. ACK! That's like using a small transport plane to deliver Avgas.

Confirms the "Hub and Spoke" for tankers. Alot of load/unload, but a big enough port should get the job done.

Not exactly, sval. Here's a better example of what I'm thinking about.

The distance between Osaka and Balikpapan is ca. 2400 nm, or 60 hexes. A Type-1 TS has an endurance of 4000 nm using 280 tons of fuel. So she saddles up, sails to Balikpapan (using 168 tons of gas). Loads 1250 tons of oil, tops off, and returns to Osaka (using another 168 tons of fuel). She has consumed 336 tons, and delivered 1250 tons. Then she repeats:

Go to Balikpapan, consume 168 tons, load 1250. Return to Osaka consuming another 168 (336 total), deliver 1250. Once more:

Go to Balikpapan, consume 168 tons, load 1250. Return to Osaka consuming another 168 (336 total), deliver 1250.

So, 3 round trips between Osaka and Balikpapan she delivers 3750 tons (3 x 1250) and consumes 1008 (3 x 336). All this assumes she goes out empty and only schlepps cargo on the return trip. I'm still delivering more than 3 x my consumption. That's where my confusion arises, but then, I am rather dim at times.

I do agree with you JWE and also Woos as he said: "...More than 200 hexes, it will consume as much fuel as it transports".

Your calculation is the same than Woos's one (you have calculated for 60 hexes, and he did for 200).
Let's take your example: 336 consumed t for 60 hexes --> 336*(200/60) = 1118 t for 200 hexes.

It's like a TV show in a day of election: Both sides win [:D]

So this is the ship to pick up the oil from eg Babo in New Guinea and ferry it to Palau. Better not let it run to supply New Caledonia from Tokyo - or let it drift back with 1 hex per turn [;)]

Important observations, thank you!

ORIGINAL: Historiker

So this is the ship to pick up the oil from eg Babo in New Guinea and ferry it to Palau. Better not let it run to supply New Caledonia from Tokyo - or let it drift back with 1 hex per turn [;)]

Important observations, thank you!

Yes, this "special" column will be very useful to minimize fuel consumptions when moving things around.

AE will be a hell lot of work. I just hope I'm not going to be too lazy... [:-]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

AE will be a hell lot of work. I just hope I'm not going to be too lazy... [:-]

The beauty of it is that you can still play and enjoy AE immensely, even if you play "lazy." If you play against another player who is not lazy, you will be at a big disadvantage. [:)]

I'm usually a "check everything twice" kind of player, but there are times when I don't mind lazily getting my butt kicked while playing. [:D]

I love threads like this!  You guys rock!  [8D]

ORIGINAL: USS America
I love threads like this!  You guys rock!  [8D]

Holy Mike Solli, Batman !! I think I got it !!

Damn, them neurons ain't firing like they are supposed to; probably the alcohol, or maybe the drugs, or the ladies, or the Tabasco on the fish tacos; yeah, that's the ticket, it's the Tabasco - gonna have to switch to Pic-a-Pepper.

Ok, so I'm steaming along on "fuel", but I'm schlepping "oil", which costs to get refined into "fuel". So the "oil" I hump has to be converted to "fuel" through the production model to make things same-same. Woof !!! Way to go Woos !!

Where was that masked Woos man when we were smiling and dialing with this stuff in the beginning. Shoot, we could have been "Seriously Evil".

ORIGINAL: sval
I do agree with you JWE and also Woos as he said: "...More than 200 hexes, it will consume as much fuel as it transports".

Your calculation is the same than Woos's one (you have calculated for 60 hexes, and he did for 200).
Let's take your example: 336 consumed t for 60 hexes --> 336*(200/60) = 1118 t for 200 hexes.

It's like a TV show in a day of election: Both sides win [:D]

Except they get to top off their fuel tanks at the load point. So instead of consuming 1118t for 200 hexes, it's only actually depleting home island stocks by half that amount (assuming you refuel in the home islands). If you only ever refuel at the load port, you aren't depleting home island fuel stocks at all, so you get the full cargo capacity added to your stockpiles each trip.

Jim

I definitely feel a headache coming on. I think I'll have a look at the allied side instead ...

ORIGINAL: JWE
Ok, so I'm steaming along on "fuel", but I'm schlepping "oil", which costs to get refined into "fuel". So the "oil" I hump has to be converted to "fuel" through the production model to make things same-same. Woof !!! Way to go Woos !!

Not really, Oil converts to Fuel 10:9. I ignored that. And the example was more intended on things like shipping fuel to Baker Island from Tokyo.

ORIGINAL: JWE
Where was that masked Woos man when we were smiling and dialing with this stuff in the beginning. Shoot, we could have been "Seriously Evil".

Well, it was always there ((tm) Babylon 5). You just didn't use it. I think Andrew did use it to tune the economy.

Jim D Burns
Except they get to top off their fuel tanks at the load point.

Actually, they would have to top off their tank a bit more often (to avoid going with 1/hex day). I just wanted to point out how important observing fuel efficiency is.

Guys,

This game might still make a good logistics manager out of me! Compared to the transport side, the military conversions are a pushover! My general thoughts so far (barring exceptions, of course):

- To'su... most or all as xPBs.
- Kiso... the same.
- Ansyu... likewise.
- Momi, Wakatake, Mutsuki, and Kamikaze... converted into APDs... then maybe even to Es... but APDs not only have cargo capacity, but are tenderable by AGs.
- Kyushu... get a few ARs starting 4/42... convert to AK when possible.
- Yusen N... convert to AK when possible.
- Husimi... maybe get a few ARs starting 4/42... convert to AK when possible.
- Toho... this is where AKEs should come from, I guess.
- Lima... get a few AKVs starting 2/42.
- Aden... maybe get a few AKVs starting 4/42.
- Ehime, Akasi... this is where ADs should come from, I guess.
- Gozan, Miyati... this is where AGs and AGPs should come from, I guess.
- Std-A, Std-B, Std-C, Std-D, Std-E... TK conversions when necessary, but only then.
- Type N TL, Type-1 TL, Manzyu TM, Type-1 TM... AO conversions when necessary, but only then.

Now, where is Japan going to get the industrial might to do all the above... that is the question

God, I love this game!