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RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:01 pm
by guctony
remember there are bottlenecks, with out being bottlenecks, trainers upgrade to trainers, Jabos upgrade to Jabos, you kill off everything, you not going to have anything to fly for a good part of your forces
Bumps
If I lose it to conversion it will be sad.
But I think it will be a bit different in this game. At the start of the game non of the Bf 109Ga flying group accept Bf109G's now after 30 day the started to accept. And by the way how can we know which groups will fly Ta 152C in real life it was none.
And I will keep Me 410 for sure[:D].
Curently I play low some 30 plane loses versus 150. half of them AA. When you now where the enemy will attacks AA can be devastating even better when some close air groups wating for damaged groups.
you need to fight the war in 43, not 44 or 45
I think 43 is bomber practice and 44 is fighter practice.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:12 pm
by Hard Sarge
well, hassle with that is, I am talking as a gamer, and not as designer, programmer, project lead
as a Gamer, I like the 335 and 152 over the 262
all things being egual, yea, the 262 should be better, but all things are not
which, if you want a answer, I would say the 262 costs too much, when you need other things more
( I don't think, cost wise, it is worth 4 152s, or maybe 2 335s, one on one, it may be the better plane, but a Gruppen of them, cost you alot of other planes you could be flying, as said, a Gruppen of 262s is 4 Gruppen of 152s, or 2 Gruppen of 335s)
my current test game, the AI needs 160+ engines, and most of his piston engine planes units are being bled white (out size of his 152s, nasty bugger)
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:49 pm
by Nemo121
Hmm, I suppose that the thing is whether or not that single Gruppen of 262s will have such increased survivability that it is worth it in the long run... Well, that's what experimentation is for [8D]
I have a hunch that if we're just aiming for the bombers that the extra speed of the 262s on "direct bomber" missions might just let them get in and out with far fewer losses, whilst shooting down more bombers than a much larger number of 152s would.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:42 pm
by guctony
Hmm, I suppose that the thing is whether or not that single Gruppen of 262s will have such increased survivability that it is worth it in the long run... Well, that's what experimentation is for
I have a hunch that if we're just aiming for the bombers that the extra speed of the 262s on "direct bomber" missions might just let them get in and out with far fewer losses, whilst shooting down more bombers than a much larger number of 152s would.
Survivability is not the issue. I tried in the old version. Range is a very limiting factor. It is only better in sense then 162. you need at least 5 or 6 groups in my exprience. or else they are for fanfare. Thats why I plan to skip R&D of 262 an go directly to Go 229 this way The range gives good coverage and good rear area nesting. One way to beat heavy engine consume is to start engine production early and dont R&D. this way once it is it is avaible you got plenty of stock to produce. But ths was in old version. ýt must be same in the nev version.
I prefer152's for making the bed. No matter what we need a good figter to take equal terms with allied figters. So jets can move freely. Or else shear number of allied figters sweep every possible Base and it is not always possible go though them I think.
Regards
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:48 pm
by Nemo121
Hmm but if you don't research the Go-229 you'll get them sometime in October '45 which, IIRC, might be just a little bit too late [:D]
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:16 pm
by guctony
Thats another story.
I am trying to crash research Ta 152C now goal is to 75 research daily. It 20 days of research. And I think it will do fine just dual role fighter. The good news is then I can convert surplus production to Do 335 research because both use the same engine. And if that combo doesnt work either Me 262 will be avaible or will skip it for go 229. Ta 152C and Do335 are a better couple.
Normally there is no hope for large scale production of jets with such a large engine requirement. Actually starting Jet engine production early and stocking for a really efficient fighter is better. I think.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:14 am
by Hard Sarge
put rockets on the 262
the main goal for that fighter is to break up the formations and let the other planes get the glory
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:00 am
by wernerpruckner
ORIGINAL: guctony
Thats another story.
I am trying to crash research Ta 152C now goal is to 75 research daily. It 20 days of research. And I think it will do fine just dual role fighter. The good news is then I can convert surplus production to Do 335 research because both use the same engine. And if that combo doesnt work either Me 262 will be avaible or will skip it for go 229. Ta 152C and Do335 are a better couple.
Normally there is no hope for large scale production of jets with such a large engine requirement. Actually starting Jet engine production early and stocking for a really efficient fighter is better. I think.
in a game vs the AI you can do many things, but against a human you will need a nice stock of reserve aircraft, otherwise you wont produce many things with a crippled industry
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:27 am
by guctony
quote:
ORIGINAL: guctony
Thats another story.
I am trying to crash research Ta 152C now goal is to 75 research daily. It 20 days of research. And I think it will do fine just dual role fighter. The good news is then I can convert surplus production to Do 335 research because both use the same engine. And if that combo doesnt work either Me 262 will be avaible or will skip it for go 229. Ta 152C and Do335 are a better couple.
Normally there is no hope for large scale production of jets with such a large engine requirement. Actually starting Jet engine production early and stocking for a really efficient fighter is better. I think.
in a game vs the AI you can do many things, but against a human you will need a nice stock of reserve aircraft, otherwise you wont produce many things with a crippled industry
I eager to test that theory on a PBEM.
It is day 75 in AI campain. And I have 800 Ta 152C in stock. WE will see how they fill Fare against P 47 soon. Interestingly and very nicely wheater is gone bad for 10 days. something never happened in the old game. If this is developer additions Thank you very much.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:49 am
by harley
I think a research cap may be in order...
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:00 am
by guctony
ORIGINAL: harley
I think a research cap may be in order...
Pardon me !!!
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:06 am
by harley
9 women cannot have a baby in 1 month. Technology rsearch is something that is supposed to take time. I think a cap would be one way.
The other way is to do what someone said the WITP:AE guys did - block research unless you can build the previous model (the 190D9, I think in this case). Either way makes sense to me.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:12 am
by guctony
ORIGINAL: harley
9 women cannot have a baby in 1 month. Technology rsearch is something that is supposed to take time. I think a cap would be one way.
The other way is to do what someone said the WITP:AE guys did - block research unless you can build the previous model (the 190D9, I think in this case). Either way makes sense to me.
Make sense to me Also. Imagine me not waiting so early to have such Ta 152C. I discover them accidentally in the pool. But I thing something is broken in the game. Even in clear Wheather turns are passing by. I thing AI is clever enough to not to mess with TA 152C.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:08 pm
by joliverlay
He had to convert more than 1/2 of all of his functional factories to research. So not many new planes. Then he got lucky and the allied stoped bombing on turn 72 for 50 consecutive days. Retooling is so much easier diring a long cease fire.
I'd say fix that problem (no AI attacks after turn 72) first. He might have been bombed to rubble if the AI was working because he had few replacement aircraft.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:18 pm
by joliverlay
NO, but 9 women can have 9 babys in a month.
Don't nurf the PBM capabilities for research to much because the AI is not working. Against a human this strategy might now work as well.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:30 pm
by madflava13
ORIGINAL: joliverlay
NO, but 9 women can have 9 babys in a month.
Don't nurf the PBM capabilities for research to much because the AI is not working. Against a human this strategy might now work as well.
Uh, they can?
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:39 pm
by joliverlay
Opps.
OK...
Correction 9 women can have 9 babies in 9 months.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:41 pm
by joliverlay
Maybe more to the point 81 women can have 9 babies per month.
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:20 pm
by guctony
ORIGINAL: joliverlay
He had to convert more than 1/2 of all of his functional factories to research. So not many new planes. Then he got lucky and the allied stoped bombing on turn 72 for 50 consecutive days. Retooling is so much easier diring a long cease fire.
I'd say fix that problem (no AI attacks after turn 72) first. He might have been bombed to rubble if the AI was working because he had few replacement aircraft.
Please I would like to have some Credit also[:D][:D][:D][8|]
RE: German fighter production discussion (BTR)
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:22 pm
by guctony
ORIGINAL: guctony
ORIGINAL: joliverlay
He had to convert more than 1/2 of all of his functional factories to research. So not many new planes. Then he got lucky and the allied stoped bombing on turn 72 for 50 consecutive days. Retooling is so much easier diring a long cease fire.
I'd say fix that problem (no AI attacks after turn 72) first. He might have been bombed to rubble if the AI was working because he had few replacement aircraft.
Please I would like to have some Credit also[:D][:D][:D][8|]
I Dare say That I can repeat the same Result with any PBEM........