Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Is aggression always a good thing mechanically? Is there any value in caution?

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Nimitz was furious when - I think it was - Hornet was lost. Fletcher held a CV TF back to refuel destroyers when it should have been in battle.

Hornet was lost at Santa Cruz, by which time Kinkaid, under Halsey, had replaced Fletcher. Her loss cannot be laid at FJF's door.

And while he did fine at Midway, it was Spruance who got the big attack on the way, yes?

...with a strike that probably prompted the game's coordination penalty for Allied carriers. Contrast that with the stellar performance of Yorktown (FJF's flagship) which managed to put a 'combined arms' strike package over Soryu. And it was in Fletcher's TF17 that Scouting 5 was withheld so that the second search could be mounted to locate (albeit fortunately) Hiryu as the surviving Japanese carrier.

ORIGINAL: Frode Larsen

As a long time WITP player who likes browsing the leader database and choose commanders, I guess I should de-lurk for a moment to give my input in this excellent thread.

First off, I’d like to mention that the AE leader database is MUCH improved from WITP. I really think the AE team made an excellent effort, so congrats to you! I only wish that naval leaders would be able to command both task forces and headquarters, but I guess that is a WITP engine thing...

As far as the leaders go, I definitely think that 9782 Fletcher has been severely underrated. After all, he did have tactical command at Midway (and Spruance always maintained that he was Fletcher’s subordinate during the battle). Carrier warfare was new to everyone in 1942 and Fletcher did as good a job as anyone else might have done under these circumstances. Nimitz clearly thought that Fletcher did a good enough of a job to give him command of the North Pacific area in 1943 (at a time when several other Vice Admirals were available for front line commands). For more information on FJF and early American carrier ops I definitely recommend Lundstrom’s Black Shoe Carrier Admiral and First Team series. Anyway, I think Fletcher’s inspiration rating should probably be upped to around 50, naval in the 60s, air 65-70 (Fletcher did have an excellent air staff), aggression perhaps around 45.

I also think that 11593 Kinkaid should be available for task force command. Kinkaid led carriers TFs for several months during 1942, including at Santa Cruz. The 3rd and 5th Fleets arrive without commanders, and I can’t see why this shouldn’t be the case with the 7th Fleet as well. Kinkaid’s air rating should probably be boosted a bit as well.

9534 English and Charles Lockwood should only be available for headquarters command. I also happen to think that English’s naval and skill/inspiration rating is too high, as I don’t think he was that stellar as ComSubPac. (Lockwood’s high rating is spot on!)

10124 Giffen has probably gotten the same treatment in the game as 8863 Crutchley. (Loose one battle and be rated as a total dunce.) Both Giffen and Crutchley were allowed to command TFs after their defeats, so they can’t have bee total incompetents.

18704 Somerville is only available for TF command, which makes it impossible to put him in his historical role as commander, Eastern Fleet.

Just a few thoughts.

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

And I'll add that Crutchley deserves a pretty big aggressiveness rating too, if it's not already the case - he's the one who threw his battleship into a fjord against destroyers, sounds pretty reckless in my book [;)]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

This and that 'other' thread reminds me of a similar situation once involving Steel Panthers. [:D]

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

And I'll add that Crutchley deserves a pretty big aggressiveness rating too, if it's not already the case - he's the one who threw his battleship into a fjord against destroyers, sounds pretty reckless in my book [;)]

I seem to recall the German destoyers being out (or nearly out) of fuel and thus trapped in Narvik. I remember someone describing the action as shooting fish in a barrel.

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

This and that 'other' thread reminds me of a similar situation once involving Steel Panthers. [:D]

Rating leaders/units/ships/airplanes, even for a war 6 decades in the rear-view-mirror, certainly generates a lot of passion....

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

I think history has been unkind to Admiral Fletcher.
I know he was very cautious, but I see that as a good trait early in the war with so few carriers defending the Pacific.

I regard an aggression rating of 31 as too low for him, and I think there's also a case for boosting his air rating. In that respect the 'score sheet' in fleet carriers sunk on both sides when he was in command speaks for itself. Possibly his admin rating of 71 is on the high side.

O
<edit> Edited for DB refs and speling </edit>

ORIGINAL: Dixie

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

This and that 'other' thread reminds me of a similar situation once involving Steel Panthers. [:D]

Rating leaders/units/ships/airplanes, even for a war 6 decades in the rear-view-mirror, certainly generates a lot of passion....

That's because everybody else is wrong. And because anybody is everbody else to somebody you've got an issue...[:D]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

And I'll add that Crutchley deserves a pretty big aggressiveness rating too, if it's not already the case - he's the one who threw his battleship into a fjord against destroyers, sounds pretty reckless in my book [;)]

I seem to recall the German destoyers being out (or nearly out) of fuel and thus trapped in Narvik. I remember someone describing the action as shooting fish in a barrel.

Some of them were, indeed. But then you must be pretty good at satellite vision in 1940 to be damn sure about what was waiting for him in the fjord - especially with U-booten in the vicinity. If it hadn't been for the Warspite swordfish seaplane, HMS Warspite could have been the fish of the said barrel instead...