Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Playing as the Allies against the AI (Hard & Historical) I lose ridiculous amounts of ASW ships assigned to ASW TFs. To the point that putting DDs in ASW TFs became a big no-no. Instead I put 1 VP tubs in ASW TFs and let the subs pulverize them. The Jap subs waste torps and occasionally take some damage in return.

DDs in any other TF do fine against subs but in ASW TFs they're just targets.

That's because ASW TF's don't get a bonus until 1944.

Don't know if that's true, but it sounds right.[:D]

Won't repeat myself either, I had a similar thread a week ago.
Sub targeting tweaked upwards, while air ASW tweaked down.
That means a double positive to submarine attacks.[;)]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I'd like to point out that two of those subs, Hammann and Porter, were both sunk while escorting capital ships.  Hammann was of course sunk while assisting Yorktown, and Porter was sunk in that remarkable attack that sank Wasp and damaged North Carolina.  Two out of three, IOW, were sunk while on escort duties, although Hammann wasn't looking for subs she was still part of the force screening Yorktown.

Hammann wasn't acting in an escort capacity at the time she was torpedoed. Wasn't she pretty much stopped and taking on survivors? (I'm just saying she wasn't on anti-sub patrol duty at the time she was torpedoed; she was a sitting duck with her mind on other matters).

I may have overlooked Porter. Okay - out of 47 American subs sunk in the Pacific in WWII, three were sunk by subs. Of that number, one was serving in an escort or ASW capcity.

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Canonrebel,

In your OP, you say that only 3 DD's were sunk by Japanese subs in WWII, and none were in ASW TF's or conducting escort duties.

I'd like to point out that two of those subs, Hammann and Porter, were both sunk while escorting capital ships.  Hammann was of course sunk while assisting Yorktown, and Porter was sunk in that remarkable attack that sank Wasp and damaged North Carolina.  Two out of three, IOW, were sunk while on escort duties, although Hammann wasn't looking for subs she was still part of the force screening Yorktown.

I thought Hammann was actually alongside Yorktown when hit?

While a relative newcomer to this game version, I identify with the ASW / sub issues wholeheartedly. I never thought to ask for correction. I just have played around it. I dont think american losses reflect history, but it certainly does give the Japs extra teeth.

Our house rule has prevented any strategic bombing to date. We have not gotten to the 'on' date for that. It appears to both of us way too easy to destroy China industry with bombing. There litterally no excess production capacity, even a small hit is fatal. Also...Supply transport is difficult at best. If I were to quote a bit of history, China had more than 22,000 KM's of railroads of which at least 11,000 were operated during the war period. Where are those RR's for supply uses? Roads dont tranport enough supply in situations where Japs mass attacks. Supply will run out and the the entire defending forces are typically subject to a massive route. Also...History suggests the garrisons required to pacify the Chinese occupied territories was a determining factor in not going further into the country. Though China could not stand up to the Japs in any meaningful way (which is correctly modelled), Japan could not cover the entire country with the available manpower. There doesnt seem to be that limiting mix in the game.

We also are playing no allied bombing against any Jap targets outside Japan until 1943.

I agree with nuclear artillery issues also. There should be some decreasing returns when artillery is 'overstacked' in a hex. It's a premiere 'gamy' option.

It's snowing.

Yeah, we have a couple of inches here in Rome (Georgia).  But the roads are fine.

In east Cobb too. No biggie.

It might snow here in Jacksonville tonight. You all in GA are supposed to keep that snow to yourselves. We don't want you to share it with us.

That was certainly one of the most abrupt hijacks ever. [:D]

[:-][:'(][:D]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yeah, we have a couple of inches here in Rome (Georgia).  But the roads are fine.

The piles on either side of the end of my driveway, where the plowed snow gets blown, are only 70 inches higher than that. Under the bird feeder, in the middle of the front yard, it's only three feet deep.

A good friend n Atlanta, where THREE WHOLE INCHES were forecast, told me last night that the office manager had called everyone personally to tell them to work at home today.

(The East coast is populated by WIMPS!!!![:)])

ORIGINAL: oldman45

It might snow here in Jacksonville tonight. You all in GA are supposed to keep that snow to yourselves. We don't want you to share it with us.

Get yourself over to I-95 and watch all the idiots spin out. That used to be one of my favorite things to do on those rare days where snow would spit for an hour ( back when I lived in JAX). [:D]

Yankee mentality about Southerners and snow is interesting.  Southerners aren't used to snow.  We don't have chains.  We don't have snow tires.  We have very little in the way of road equipment.  We don't have any practice.  So a little snow is a big deal and it's treated as a holiday.  That's okay when you only get a few inches every few years or decades.
 
When Yankees come down here in the summer and experience 95 degrees and 95% humidity for 97 straight days they are horrified and can't handle it.  If we point out that they're wimps they get offended!

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yankee mentality about Southerners and snow is interesting.  Southerners aren't used to snow.  We don't have chains.  We don't have snow tires.  We have very little in the way of road equipment.  We don't have any practice.  So a little snow is a big deal and it's treated as a holiday.  That's okay when you only get a few inches every few years or decades.

When Yankees come down here in the summer and experience 95 degrees and 95% humidity for 97 straight days they are horrified and can't handle it.  If we point out that they're wimps they get offended!

I wouldn't know , it says Florida on my drivers licence. And when the Floridians bytch to me about the heat and humidity , I tell that "that ain't nothing compared to Guam!".[:D] It never fails, there's always some dort that wants to play "can you top this".[:D][:D][:D]

Hey, I've never lived outside the south and I HATE summer here. You can always put more on. When you are buck naked and sweating like drunk john on a cheap whore, it's just wrong.
[:D]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yankee mentality about Southerners and snow is interesting.  Southerners aren't used to snow.  We don't have chains.  We don't have snow tires.  We have very little in the way of road equipment.  We don't have any practice.  So a little snow is a big deal and it's treated as a holiday.  That's okay when you only get a few inches every few years or decades.

When Yankees come down here in the summer and experience 95 degrees and 95% humidity for 97 straight days they are horrified and can't handle it.  If we point out that they're wimps they get offended!

Who you callin' a Yankee? [:)]

I grew up in VA, NC, CA, and HI (and Scotland, and some other places.) I've lived in the Great White North for over a decade, but I'm no native.

For that matter, I don't know anyone with chains, or snow tires (the kind you change with the seasons.) They went away with front-wheel drive. We do have flotillas of plows, sanders, and salters. OTOH, "salt" (which isn't anymore really) only works down to about 17 degrees and it was two below at dawn today. I still have the snow from pre-Christmas in my yard, and it'll be there untl mid-April.

Even so, I love it. I will never, ever live with that humidity again. Also, the accents here are much cuter on the girls, dontchaknow, then. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yeah, we have a couple of inches here in Rome (Georgia).  But the roads are fine.

Are you guys calling out the National Guard? Has the Governor declared it a disaster zone?[:'(]

Whoops...better cool it, I may be construed as skeptic #17: the hijacker who hijacks the hijacked thread.

Construed? [:D]

Well, I could have said misidentified, pilloried, branded or tatooed. I guess those would have been better choices...

I would LOVE to see some snow in Colorado! I was told by my wife (since I did NOT have a window) that it snowed a bunch here from Sept-Dec. As soon as I got out it STOPPED! As to snow accumulations--you are all WEENIES! The East Coast had two nice storms in a week, Rome gets 3+ Inches, and oooohhhhhhhhhh no the world is ending for everyone!

We hardies in Colorado had a winter two years back where we got hit six-eight times in as many weeks with storms that AVERAGED 8-12 inches. It was great! Loved it and just kept right on shoveling. Idiots who live in this state and then COMPLAIN about the snow can move to the South. Good stuff.

How 'bout that GLOBAL WARMING??? Where is Al Gore?


There. Did I demonstrate the ability to take offense to the hijacked subject of a Thread that was REALLY cool while at the same time interjecting politics so the Thread might get locked? Does that get to count as one on the list?