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Added Ju-87B, and two schemes for Ju-87C. This pretty much completes the Stukas; since the Ju-87R was basically a B IIRC with drop tanks; and the G model cannonvogel is not going to be much use in the PTO.

Excelent!!! Are u plannig to add more aircrafts? thanks....

I still gots to do:

FW-190A-x
FW-190D-x
Ta-152
He-219
Fw-187 (lost to Bf-110)
He-274/277
Arado 234B
Arado 234C
Bf-109G
Bf-109Z
Bf-109F
Ju-290/390
Hs-132
Do-217N
Ju-188E-1
Ju-288
Ju-86B
Ju-86K
Ju-88A

So yes I'll be busy. [:D]

OMG. ...thats a lot of aircrafts [:)]. Good luck 

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
How effective would have been, say, a couple of modified G4M2 air-groups, trained and equipped with Japanese versions of the Hs 293 in a late war battle like the Marianas/First Philippine Sea?

Looking at the editor, I've been looking at the Ohka Database entry - the Japanese solution to the problem of guided missiles is, let's say, rather crude

The Japanese face a different problem to the Luftwaffe and that leads to different solutions. Germany had mostly abdicated the surface naval war and Luftwaffe activities rarely passed beyond harassment attacks, which Fritz-X and Hs 293 were ideal for - find a ship without air cover, standoff outside guns range and manually guide in the missile. The Japanese, OTOH, are fighting a primarily naval war and need to attack carrier escorted task forces with extensive CAPs. They can't afford to have standoff man-in-the-loop guidance, because the CAP will destroy any aircraft foolish enough to try hanging around to guide in the missile. Faced with that scenario, putting the man aboard the missile is actually much more survivable, at least in terms of ensuring the missile isn't mission killed before final impact. The problem faced by the Okhas was that the CAP was so intense and their carrier aircraft so sluggish that they could rarely reach launch point - an unfortunate consequence of the man-in-the-missile concept being that it places a certain minimum size on the missile.

The US had a much more appropriate ASM concept in the radar-guided Bat, while the semi-radio-guided Azon was useful for bridge-plinking under conditions of complete air-superiority. The IJA was actually on the right lines with the IR-guided Ke-Go, though the necessary sensitivity was probably several development generations away, the radio-guided I-Go-1-a and b (IJA) and Funryu-1 (IJN) would have faced the same tactical and technical issues as the German missiles with the Japanese technical establishment less able to fix them. I don't see any potential at all form the acoustic guided I-Go-1-c being developed into an operational missile. Some of the problems go away for SAM roles and the IJN might have developed the later Funryus into a usable weapon, but the allies were far more experienced at ECM and could probably have developed countermeasures in short order.

Probably the one German guided weapon the IJN could have gained a real benefit from is the T5 Zaunkonig acoustic torpedo.

Ki-264 carrying 2 x Ohkas, one under each wing?


I think that for Japan that might well have been a better option.

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie
The Germans other than the Ju-87, didn't have a plane that came close to that role. While you *could* use one of the various experimental modifications that turned the FW-190 or Bf-109 into a two seat trainer -- it wouldn't be rugged enough to stand up to carrier use; leaving only the Ju-87 to fill that role.

The intended scout aircraft for Graf Zeppelin was initially the Fi 167 scout/torpedo bomber, ultimately replaced in planning when focus shifted to additional fighters, with the recon role presumably slipping across to the Ju 87 squadron. Beyond that I fail to see why a two-seat variant of the Bf 109T could not have been as carrier-capable as its single seat parent, Bf 109 two-seat trainers simply replaced part of the fuselage tankage with a second cockpit immediately behind the first and were far from 'experimental'. Germany fully intended operating the Bf-109T (Trager, carrier) from Graf Zeppelin and went as far as building 7 Bf 109T1s with full carrier gear and 63 T2s without. 48 T2s were later converted back to T1s in anticipation that Graf Zeppelin might be completed.

There are really no projects other than the Ju-187 "improved" Stuka that are suitable for a carrier bomber to replace the Stuka -- the Germans seemed to not like single engine attack aircraft.

The one thing Germany wasn't short of was aircraft projects and I've no doubt something could have been rapidly worked up if the requirement arose - look at how the Me-155 was spun out of the Bf 109T in 1942, for instance. Germany never really put its full weight into developing Graf Zeppelin or its airgroup and what we see is the product of a limited-effort sideshow, not a major development priority.

ORIGINAL: dwg

The intended scout aircraft for Graf Zeppelin was initially the Fi 167 scout/torpedo bomber, ultimately replaced in planning when focus shifted to additional fighters, with the recon role presumably slipping across to the Ju 87 squadron.

THanks for letting me know of the Fi-167! Another plane to do [:o]

Beyond that I fail to see why a two-seat variant of the Bf 109T could not have been as carrier-capable as its single seat parent, Bf 109 two-seat trainers simply replaced part of the fuselage tankage with a second cockpit immediately behind the first and were far from 'experimental.

Thanks for jogging my memory some; I went googling up two seat Bf-109s; and found the Bf-109G-12; which basically cut internal fuel capacity from 400 liters to 240 liters to install the second seat; which all but virtually required a 300 liter drop tank to always be installed on the centerline to restore the range lost by adding the second guy.

Problem is; that 300 liter tank goes where the weapon (bomb/torpedo) would go, which makes the G-12 worthless as a naval aviation aircraft unless you lengthen the fuselage to add back in that missing 160 liters of fuel, and that would lead to many problems -- the Bf-109 was always very tempermental on landing or takeoff; and now you want to lengthen it (ahoy structural problems!).

The one thing Germany wasn't short of was aircraft projects and I've no doubt something could have been rapidly worked up if the requirement arose - look at how the Me-155 was spun out of the Bf 109T in 1942, for instance.

Teh Me-155 was basically a Bf-109G with a new wing; trying to reuse as many Gustav components as possible. I suppose we could spin a carrier based scout/bomber off from the FW-190; but due to the needs of having to fit two men in, plus enough fuel for a long range scouting role; the only things that would be reusable would be probably the engine itself, and maybe one or two framing ribs; since you would need virtually a new fuselage.

What do you think of a scout/bomber based on the FW-187 Ryan ?