Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Got me there. Peace. [;)]

Although a combat report is a fairy tale on its own.
The truth about actual things are in the combat replay but thats a bit hard to post...

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

A question to those of you that have given this topic some thought:

If I were to have a house rule that my opponent and I adhered to regarding altitude maximums / airframe type-would this make results more realistic?

ORIGINAL: dr.diplodocus

I've been playing Guadalnalcanal scen for the past 4 months now. Sweeps and dogfights have normally been taking place from 10-15k, sometimes lower and usually higher when escorting bombers. There have been no strato sweeps nor have we been playing the altitude game. From my experience, the main factors are Air skill, Defense skill, speed of fighters, fatigue and luck. My Zeros have put a beating on my opponents P-39s, Wildcats, and P-40s, but it has never been a walk-over on my side.

If there is some bonus that some how magically makes fighters flying at higher alts all supreme unstoppable gods of the air, then I have seen no trace of it. Flying at altitudes where my planes have high MVR ratings have worked for my Zeros and his fighters alike. A number in the 30s or 40s is and will always be greater than a number in the low 10s. but then again, none of that matters that much if the pilots are green.

ORIGINAL: Shark7

1. Some aircraft are naturally more manueverable at higher altitudes. This gives them an advantage. These happen to be early war IJA/IJN aircraft while their allied counterparts are better at lower altitudes. This of course reverses by war's end.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

It's my understanding that the maneuver ratings are not pure for apples to apples comparisons. The max speed is considered, too.

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

ORIGINAL: witpqs

It's my understanding that the maneuver ratings are not pure for apples to apples comparisons. The max speed is considered, too.

speaking of speed "being considered", isn't the AAR between FatR and Yubari a modified scenario? i.e., aren't the japanese fighter speeds adjusted up?

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Well, I just had a play, 18 sweeping P40s (turns out to be 16 usually) vs 18 Zeroes on 60% CAP (which means about 11 up normally and the rest on standby), range 5, Zeroes at 25,000'. Zeroes had an experience advantage, average 74 vs average 54 for the P40s - but the P40s are the ones doing the sweep. Thousand Mile War scenario as its small and quick, with the Rufes at Kiska Island turned into A6M2s.

With the P40s at 29,000' the tally, taken from air losses and so presumed accurate, was

4 - 1, 4 - 1, 3 - 1, 4 - 1, all to the P40s. So lets say 4 to 1 in the Allied favour.
this was 4 different runs of a single turn, or 5 consecutive days of same settings? did you restart the game for each run, or load the save each time? i thought i read something about having to restart to get different RNG's for each run...also curious if CAP had radar assist

Then I ran a set with P40s at 25k feet, 20k, 15k, 10k, 5k and 100'. I only ran it once at each altitude.

25k feet = 4 losses each
20k feet = 3 losses each
15k feet = 3 losses each
10k feet = 3 losses each
5k feet = 2 P40s lost, 3 Zeroes lost
100' = 8 P40s lost, 0 Zeroes lost

I think the 100' one which I think is a special case as the combat report talked about strafing, so perhaps ignore that one. So lets say 1:1, at all altitude bands.

Interestingly even when the P40s were sweeping at low altitude, like 5000', almost all if not all the actual kills happened after 'P40 dives on Zero' and they were all after the initial collision which makes me think the P40s were shooting down the Zeroes that were on standby and scrambling and that those particular fighters tended to be below the P40.

Conclusion - stratosweeps work. If alt bands work I'm not really seeing it.

ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart

speaking of speed "being considered", isn't the AAR between FatR and Yubari a modified scenario? i.e., aren't the japanese fighter speeds adjusted up?

ORIGINAL: witpqs

It's my understanding that the maneuver ratings are not pure for apples to apples comparisons. The max speed is considered, too.

ORIGINAL: FatR

ORIGINAL: witpqs

It's my understanding that the maneuver ratings are not pure for apples to apples comparisons. The max speed is considered, too.

The max speed is static at all altitudes, AFAIK.

ORIGINAL: FatR

ORIGINAL: Shark7

1. Some aircraft are naturally more manueverable at higher altitudes. This gives them an advantage. These happen to be early war IJA/IJN aircraft while their allied counterparts are better at lower altitudes. This of course reverses by war's end.

That's wrong. The maneurability difference between Allied and Japanese early-war planes decreases as altitude increases. Zero has 17-points MVR advantage over P-40E at ground level and only 8-points one at max altitude. If not for the ability of Zeros and Oscars to fly higher than nearly all early Allied fighters, stratosphere battles would have benefitted Allies exclusively.

This dynamics persists until the war's end. P-47N is 9 MVR behind Ki-84b at ground level and actually exceeds it by 3 points at the highest altitude band.

ORIGINAL: dr.diplodocus

Conclusion: In that case it'd be better to send P-40s in at 5k where you loose less planes then send them in at 29k just so you can get 4 kills. The object in war is to loose less than your opponent not to get highest kill tally.Even if you lost 0 planes and shot down 1 at 5k, you'd still send them in at 29k, even if that meant loosing 60 planes and shooting down 60. but if you want to use your fighters just for the sole reason to get a 5:1 ratio, then nobody's stopping you.