Matrix Games Forums

here is the Tank Corps

the Mech Corps (this is the bad boy of the SU Armies)

and the Light SU unit

now make a stack with those and you got a nasty little punch coming

and remember, those have been in combat, so, they are not at total full strength (they pretty good shape, but could be better)

from some of the other questions, I think those screen shots should answer how the Corps are set up

for tank numbers, I think part of that, is we are counting AFV, and not tanks, so while numbers may look wrong for tanks, other types are being counted as AFVs

not sure for the other Campaigns, but I know that the 41 matches almost to the dot, the numbers I was able to find (and I have a pretty good set of books on the Russian Front)

but back to the war

as I said, I lost a lot of screen shots, so I have gotten a bit beyound where I last talked

so, it is turn 9 and here are some of the numbers and what not

I think I had said, I wanted to hammer on Finland and AGC, get what I could get moving into Romyland, and just to keep pressure where I could along the rest of the line

Finland turned into a mess, I broke though and trapped a good part of the Fins, and then they moved and cut my supply lines, then I opened my lines and trapped them again, and again, and again, but, I was able to wear them down, before they could wear me down, as of week 9, Finland is about to break

AGC has taken a pounding, very, very nasty, I am able to make some pockets, others they are able to break out of, but, the pressure is such, that to break out, makes a chance for a bigger pocket later, and on and on, the Center is breaking, and all pressure anywhere else on the line, will pay off

and then, it happens, the Romy line breaks, and the Romy surrender and change sides in the 9th week, very bad break and timing for the Ge forces, troop sent to try and help the line, end up trapped deep behind the Russian lines, my short breakthough's are able to shift and my the pockets even deeper and HARDer to break out of, 23 Divs are trapped in the south, 7 Armor

that is going to hurt

my 3 Tank Armies I was using to put pressure on, are able to shift fronts, and make a major breakthough, and drive into Poland (and my Polish Army is later created)

disaster in the south, soon followed by another one in the center, 24 Div's are trapped, in fact, the only thing saving the German right now, is I have over ran my supply line, and my units deep into Poland, can't keep driving, and will have to wait for the supply line and other troops to catch up (which will allow the German a chance to reset his lines, but they will be much weaker now)

in the north, disaster is avoided by 10 miles !!!, or AGN, would be joining the troops on the march to the POW cages in the East

over all losses as of turn 9

as you can see, the numbers are really kind of close, it is the surrenders that tilt the scales, KIA and WIA are very close, along with AFV losses (and again, a lot of the Axis AFV losses are going to be captured, broken down, while the SU losses are going to be burnt out husks)

air losses

where the LW has fighters, it controls the air, but they don't have fighters everywhere, but they have to try and supply there troops and make some raids, then I have the numbers to make them pay

plus, I try to hurt them where ever I got the chance, I can put up 1000 planes, while the LW is lucky to put up 120, after a fight or so, those will start to wear down, once I catch you on the ground, I am going to make you pay

in that screen, I finally over whelmed a AF in Finland, had a good Gruppen of 190's who had been making my life pretty lousy, I wore them down, along with the 190 Fs based there, and then over ran the base !!!

the Fin and LW forces in Finland are Kaput

Units KIA while looking bad, is not too shabby, yet, the disasters are to come

Tank strengths were input directly from Jentz 'Panzer Truppen' as of June 1944. The AFV category includes more than just tanks and stugs as it also includes all of your tank destroyers and I believe it also includes armored recon vehicles and perhaps and self propelled howitzers as well.

Trey

ORIGINAL: wosung

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Soviet Tank and Mechanized Corps: It takes 3 tank brigades to create a tank corps, and 3 mech and or motorized brigades to create a mech corps.

1. So you decided to leave out an organic brigade for each corps type?

IRL wasn't it 3 tank brigades plus a mech/mot brigade for a tank corps, and 3 mech and or motorized brigades plus a tank brigade for a mech corps... Plus several organic regiments with assault guns? No small difference.

2. About German tank strengths end of June 1944:
Your figures “4971 (4819)” (22.6.1944), in post #6 of this thread, are too high.

AG North (end of June 1944):
30 tanks, 206 assault guns (plus 12th Panzer Division, maybe 100-150 tanks max., which end of June, after the beginning of Bagration, left for AG Centre.

AG Centre (22.6.1944):
118 tanks, 452 assault guns

AG Nordukraine (end of June 1944):
1510 tanks and assault guns (some 1300, 86%, ready)

AG Südukraine (11.7.1944):
424 tanks, 390 assault guns, 40 assault howitzers

altogether:
some 3270 tanks, assault guns, assault howitzers for the time around the start of Bagration.
Operating with the above micro-readiness-rate of 86% overall you’ll get some 2812 ready tanks, assault guns and assault howitzers.

Source: Karl-Heinz Frieser (ed.), Die Ostfront 1943/44. Der Krieg im Osten und an den Nebenfronten [The East Front. The war in the East and on the minor fronts], Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg, Vol. 8, Munich 2007, pp. 532, 624, 687, 736.

BTW: I'm curious about Russian unit density in late war short of Berlin. Three corps plus support per hex seems a bit low.

Regards

Breakthough by the 1st, 3rd and 4th Tank Armies

the Front to the North of them is still Static, or it would of been nasty

think the front is about to collapse, think there may be more troops in Germany refitting then on the front lines

Andy says I make lousy pockets, but...

oh so close

and another almost

but some of them work, none of them are air tight, but the enemy is going to have work to break them all, and if they do, then they are in place, for the next pocket to be formed, and so on and so on

I trapped 12, some broke into the open, are now in trouble of being pocketed this turn, and the hunt goes on

week 12, Finland and Slovakia give up the fight

war is going down hill fast

Sept 7th, Warsaw falls to the SU, Germany is entered, 11 Div surrender, massive pockets are formed, if they can't break out, the entire front line is shattered

from the map, looks like there are more Divs on the German border then on the frontline

Regarding the tank armies, thanks for the response all!

Btw, Hard Sarge, Soviets didn't go for huge pincer maneuvers on purpose. It was inefficient for one. Better to go for lots of smaller ones. This way reduction of encircled units was quicker due to size and greater systemic disruption of command network/infrastructure. A random thought here

I not really showing how I go about things, but I tend to go for smaller pockets, and then try to combine them, so more of a double envelopment idea

most times, when I do get a large pocket, it is more a movement trap, vs a solid wall (I think a lot of Jon's pockets would be more of the solid wall type)