RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:07 pm
AI Morale set at 110%. All else on Normal. FoW OFF.
Turn 3. AI units disposed all along the front.
Turn 3. AI units disposed all along the front.
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Southwest Front Runs Away?
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RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:10 pm
Turn 4. AI starts padding defences in North and Centre even though I have stopped advancing there. I am only attacking in South to see what happens...
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:11 pm
OK sending saved game and auto-saves for the turn.
Sort of a game breaker but it might be fun to continue playing as see what happens.
Sort of a game breaker but it might be fun to continue playing as see what happens.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:11 pm
Turn 5. AI units in the South are fleeing
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:13 pm
You should keep going. You've got plenty of game left to go, and just because it lets you advance in the south for a few turns, doesn't mean the game is over.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:13 pm
Turn 6. AI has virtually abandoned the South. His units in the centre are ignoring my movements south of them and orienting to face my AG C and AG N
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:15 pm
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
You should keep going. You've got plenty of game left to go, and just because it lets you advance in the south for a few turns, doesn't mean the game is over.
No, the 'game' is not over, but the satisfying representation of Operation Barbarossa is kind of spoiled...?
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:18 pm
I posted my earlier CG with the same observations and on that occasion I was halfway to Kiev before the AI responded. It's as though it plays a kind of see-saw strategy - pulls all the way back to beyond the Dnepr, then pushes all the way forward to the West of Kiev. Very strange and wonderful, but not Russia in 1941.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:21 pm
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
You should keep going. You've got plenty of game left to go, and just because it lets you advance in the south for a few turns, doesn't mean the game is over.
True and it's not like I will be making my way through the 50 plus division sitting in front of Mogilev any time soon. It should be interesting to see what the AI will do once I begin to swing north from Kiev threatening the flank.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:56 pm
ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo
Sort of a game breaker but it might be fun to continue playing as see what happens.
It's not actually a game breaker - it's not great to see the AI doing that, but it will recover and give you a good fight. You can't win this war in 1941 by getting a bit ahead of schedule in the South. [8D]
Regards,
- Erik
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:00 pm
In all honesty guys, and I say this as someone who is experiencing the same issue and also not liking it that much: keep in mind that you will normally capture the map up to about the surroundings of Moscow, Kharkov and the Stalino area and surrounding cities in 1941. Everything that happens up to that point just speeds up the speed at which you get there. And like Dr. Foo said: those huge mobs of Soviets are difficult to blow through. I have absolutely no idea how on earth I'm going to deal with 40 divisions in the Leningrad area on Challenging, for example. If I can't isolate them, there's no way I'm getting into Leningrad.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:14 pm
This is practically the reverse of what happened a bunch of times in the actual war.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:21 pm
Ok, we found and fixed the Ukraine issue. Gary had two bits of code that dealt with the Ukraine that conflicted. He had a no entry zone where he didn't want to form a line, but sometimes the line would be ordered to be set up there but no units would be allowed to move in and fill it. We've fixed it, and now the AI will set up it's line. I expect it to be in the next beta patch and the first official patch.
I still don't think it's a game breaker because the AI is going to lose that area anyway, and in some ways the smart thing is to pull back (allthough not that far and not without a line set up). But the fix should play better. Of course with more units filling the line in the south, you'll probably have a few less in the center.
I still don't think it's a game breaker because the AI is going to lose that area anyway, and in some ways the smart thing is to pull back (allthough not that far and not without a line set up). But the fix should play better. Of course with more units filling the line in the south, you'll probably have a few less in the center.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:29 pm
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Ok, we found and fixed the Ukraine issue. Gary had two bits of code that dealt with the Ukraine that conflicted. He had a no entry zone where he didn't want to form a line, but sometimes the line would be ordered to be set up there but no units would be allowed to move in and fill it. We've fixed it, and now the AI will set up it's line. I expect it to be in the next beta patch and the first official patch.
I still don't think it's a game breaker because the AI is going to lose that area anyway, and in some ways the smart thing is to pull back (although not that far and not without a line set up). But the fix should play better. Of course with more units filling the line in the south, you'll probably have a few less in the center.
I agree game breaker was too harsh. Anytime I have played as Soviets in FiTE I pull back to Kiev dig in there and start to form a defensive line on the opposite side of the Dnepr. However, I put speed bumps in the way so by the time the Germans get to my line it is well formed and they are fatigued and low on supply.
Still I have a headache in front of me with both AGC and AGN there are tons of units packed in front it's going to be slow and bloody.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:14 am
This is the start of turn 5 I kept playing the original game. After the mass bugout on turn 3 by turn 5 it looks like they are coming back and trying to defend Kiev.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:33 am
Forget my last post that was before recon photos were taken. I might have to pull back!
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:59 am
Actually for me it's good to see surprises like this. Do you actually think that you'll win the war if you go on in the south?
I think the AI is trying to trap you into overextending (intentionally or not). You will run out of supply since you out-pace rail repair.
Why would anyone want to nerf that 'smart' behaviour just because it's not historical? The circumstances are still plausible and I believe a human player will do something similar.
I think the AI is trying to trap you into overextending (intentionally or not). You will run out of supply since you out-pace rail repair.
Why would anyone want to nerf that 'smart' behaviour just because it's not historical? The circumstances are still plausible and I believe a human player will do something similar.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:41 am
Actually the AI doesn't in any way mimic Soviet historical behaviour. That is because in 1941 Soviet behaviour was essentially suicidal and piecemeal. The Germans repeatedly overran small concentrations of men (a few divisions at a time) most of the time though we mostly know of the big battles. The AI tries to keep its forces concentrated and supplied in '41 which is why it trades space for time in most cases. Actually it is more rational than STAVKA and reducing the chances of players inflicting 2+ million casualties in the first months. It is kind of frustrating for the players ... [:D]
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:56 pm
ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo
Forget my last post that was before recon photos were taken. I might have to pull back!
LOL - insane pic. Glad to hear that the issue has been confirmed as a bug and fixed so quickly. Shows what can be achieved if we complain long enough and loudly enough.
RE: Southwest Front Runs Away?
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:58 pm
ORIGINAL: Offworlder
Actually the AI doesn't in any way mimic Soviet historical behaviour. That is because in 1941 Soviet behaviour was essentially suicidal and piecemeal. The Germans repeatedly overran small concentrations of men (a few divisions at a time) most of the time though we mostly know of the big battles. The AI tries to keep its forces concentrated and supplied in '41 which is why it trades space for time in most cases. Actually it is more rational than STAVKA and reducing the chances of players inflicting 2+ million casualties in the first months. It is kind of frustrating for the players ... [:D]
And would make this a game rather than a simulation, if your comments are accurate...
I'll bet Gary G would tell you he's aiming to build a simulation though
