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RE: high supply
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:20 pm
by Panama
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
50 per turn is great, but in a few cases I was trying to get more for a few turns and couldn't, so knowing it is Norms fault makes it ok. Thanks very much. [&o]
While it is as Norm no doubt intended it, that doesn't mean we can't hope for it to be changed. I can't really justify it. I think Norm just didn't like units recovering supply too fast. But why can't they?
One word. Isandlwana. A unit can be sitting on a supply depot and still not get enhanced supply simply because it was not officially approved conduct. [;)]
RE: high supply
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:22 pm
by ColinWright
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
50 per turn is great, but in a few cases I was trying to get more for a few turns and couldn't, so knowing it is Norms fault makes it ok. Thanks very much. [&o]
While it is as Norm no doubt intended it, that doesn't mean we can't hope for it to be changed. I can't really justify it. I think Norm just didn't like units recovering supply too fast. But why can't they?
I suppose one could argue it can only be passed out so fast. It doesn't matter how many cases of 7.92 ammunition there are two km back -- it can only be run up to the front so quickly.
Freakish results? Give the Dutch Army a high enough supply rate and it can overrun Germany?
There's probably no reason you can't make it
possible though -- although you might want to run a few checks to see if there was something Norm found out the hard way.
RE: high supply
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:13 pm
by sPzAbt653
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
50 per turn is great, but in a few cases I was trying to get more for a few turns and couldn't, so knowing it is Norms fault makes it ok. Thanks very much. [&o]
While it is as Norm no doubt intended it, that doesn't mean we can't hope for it to be changed. I can't really justify it. I think Norm just didn't like units recovering supply too fast. But why can't they?
I suppose one could argue it can only be passed out so fast.
Yes, arguements for both views. Overall, the designer can design. The two cases I was working on were Goodwood and Market-Garden, where the British had strong artillery for the initial bombardments. Playing the scenarios, all the artillery is down to the 1% level after a few rounds, and the following turn start at 50%. Still strong, but I was trying for
very strong.
I did read a blurp about the difficulty in moving all those 25 pounder shells from the dumps to the guns for Goodwood, and the fact that the advancing units outran the range of the artillery. So I put the artillery units in garrison, and on tactical support, on a rail hex, adjacent to a supply unit, but then they all jumped in on the disengagement attacks and went down to 1% anyway. [:(]
RE: high supply
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:02 pm
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: Panama
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
50 per turn is great, but in a few cases I was trying to get more for a few turns and couldn't, so knowing it is Norms fault makes it ok. Thanks very much. [&o]
While it is as Norm no doubt intended it, that doesn't mean we can't hope for it to be changed. I can't really justify it. I think Norm just didn't like units recovering supply too fast. But why can't they?
One word. Isandlwana. A unit can be sitting on a supply depot and still not get enhanced supply simply because it was not officially approved conduct. [;)]
Norm actually referenced Isandlwana in the manual:
Consider the story of the quartermaster at Isandlwana (1879). As
legend has it, the British troops had plenty of ammunition available,
but the quartermaster refused to distribute it more rapidly
than the official rate of replacement for British troops in the field.
Good Force Supply Stockpile. poor Formation Supply Distribution
Efficiency. Initially, good Unit Supply levels.
As you can see, it's accounted for by "poor Formation Supply Distribution Efficiency". That's more than sufficient to account for that quartermaster.
A blanket limit, however, imposes him on every force in history.
RE: high supply
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:32 pm
by Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Unrelated and probably not worthy of its own thread, 'high supply' doesn't work anymore? I tried a couple old COW scenarios and switching 'high' on/off didn't change anything. Let several turns run, and closed and restarted, but still the supply level stayed the same.
Took me a while to figure this one out, since I've never used High Supply and wasn't familiar with just what it did. But, I can now say that it is working correctly. It doesn't change the FSL or on-map supply values. Rather, it adds a 1.5 factor to the supply equation. So, given the same on-map supply value, a unit will get 1.5 times as much supply with it on as without.
To see this, run Arracourt with High Supply off. Without moving the Germans, cycle through to the second game turn. Note that German units have increased their unit supply from 60 to 64. Now do the same test with High Supply on. You'll find that the German units have increased their supply from 60 to 66 instead. They've received 50% more supply (6 instead of 4). Their FSL remains at 15 in both cases, as do on-map supply values.
RE: high supply
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:39 pm
by sPzAbt653
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Unrelated and probably not worthy of its own thread, 'high supply' doesn't work anymore? I tried a couple old COW scenarios and switching 'high' on/off didn't change anything. Let several turns run, and closed and restarted, but still the supply level stayed the same.
Took me a while to figure this one out, since I've never used High Supply and wasn't familiar with just what it did. But, I can now say that it is working correctly. It doesn't change the FSL or on-map supply values. Rather, it adds a 1.5 factor to the supply equation. So, given the same on-map supply value, a unit will get 1.5 times as much supply with it on as without.
To see this, run Arracourt with High Supply off. Without moving the Germans, cycle through to the second game turn. Note that German units have increased their unit supply from 60 to 64. Now do the same test with High Supply on. You'll find that the German units have increased their supply from 60 to 66 instead. They've received 50% more supply (6 instead of 4). Their FSL remains at 15 in both cases, as do on-map supply values.
Good grief, my tests were while playing, so I was monitoring the on map display and the situation briefings. As you discovered, it doesn't show up there. I re-ran without moving and sure enough, +50% over the actual/displayed. I'll add this to my rewrite of the manual !!
Never used high supply ? Well, it helps with some of those low supply scenarios. But an increase from 4 to 6, not much help. And I assume that playing some of the COW scenarios with the new supply rules on might require ticking the high supply option.