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RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:10 pm
by Mynok
Corps HQ are the only ones that deal with supply as far as I can tell. If you are 100's of hexes from your corps HQ and not having supply problems then there is an issue. Army HQs are supposed to be far in the rear. That's from the German side at least.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:12 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
I see soviet corps expend about 20%-25% of ammo in a deliberate attack. Apparantly this unit hasnt attacked last (few?) turns... It draws less supply then it would when close to its HQ. It probably also isnt commiting support units..
The way I see it, your opposition in front of you has already succumbed to the initial assault (with HQ in range?). What does the map look like?
3rd tank army is fighting 3 times a turn mostly since May it is now September, it has faced line after line of German divisions I forgot to move the HQ about the start of July and then left it on purpose as the it got rediculous.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:13 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: Mynok
Corps HQ are the only ones that deal with supply as far as I can tell. If you are 100's of hexes from your corps HQ and not having supply problems then there is an issue. Army HQs are supposed to be far in the rear. That's from the German side at least.
Okay what is the point of HQ's? What is the point of supply if it is like oxygen?
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:14 pm
by alfonso
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
And showing the distance
distance? where is it?
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:16 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: alfonso
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
And showing the distance
distance? where is it?
The Orange highlighted HQ and the highlighted Corps one at extreme left the other extreme right
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:18 pm
by timmyab
I agree that the command and control system is a rather dissapointing aspect of the game.I want to be able to feel the personalities of my generals on the battlefield in a very obvious way and I'm not getting that at the moment.Also I'd like to see the effectiveness of HQ's decrease steadily with range, not just all or nothing up to a set distance.If a unit is attached to an army group 45 hexes away it should have limited uses, whereas if it's attached to a corps HQ in an adjacent hex with a good general the difference should be immediately obvious.
In fact there's tons of stuff I'd like to change really although that doesn't mean to say that the game's no good, it's just that C&C is my favorite aspect of wargaming.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:22 pm
by Mynok
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
ORIGINAL: Mynok
Corps HQ are the only ones that deal with supply as far as I can tell. If you are 100's of hexes from your corps HQ and not having supply problems then there is an issue. Army HQs are supposed to be far in the rear. That's from the German side at least.
Okay what is the point of HQ's? What is the point of supply if it is like oxygen?
You are playing the Soviets so it's a totally different animal because they have a rail net.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:22 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: timmyab
I agree that the command and control system is a rather dissapointing aspect of the game.I want to be able to feel the personalities of my generals on the battlefield in a very obvious way and I'm not getting that at the moment.Also I'd like to see the effectiveness of HQ's decrease steadily with range, not just all or nothing up to a set distance.If a unit is attached to an army group 45 hexes away it should have limited uses, whereas if it's attached to a corps HQ in an adjacent hex with a good general the difference should be immediately obvious.
In fact there's tons of stuff I'd like to change really although that doesn't mean to say that the game's no good, it's just that C&C is my favorite aspect of wargaming.
Yup thats the way things should work
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:25 pm
by alfonso
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
ORIGINAL: alfonso
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
And showing the distance
distance? where is it?
The Orange highlighted HQ and the highlighted Corps one at extreme left the other extreme right
Ah, thanks. I forgot that embedded images are wider than normal posts, and I was not seing your complete picture.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:26 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: Mynok
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
ORIGINAL: Mynok
Corps HQ are the only ones that deal with supply as far as I can tell. If you are 100's of hexes from your corps HQ and not having supply problems then there is an issue. Army HQs are supposed to be far in the rear. That's from the German side at least.
Okay what is the point of HQ's? What is the point of supply if it is like oxygen?
You are playing the Soviets so it's a totally different animal because they have a rail net.
Again your missing the point I have fought my way with these units over 300 miles and could fight another 300. Wash, rinse, repeat.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:38 pm
by alfonso
I think that if you advance 3 hexes westward each turn, and your rail network extends 3 hexes westward each turn, your units can be supplied more or less adequately (or even adequately) by rail supply. The HQ supply role (their depots) become (more) relevant when your unit is not so near of your rail grid. I suppose you still have the HQ leader role in function, but you will not have their support unit function, and their support squad function.
Please note that I am not giving an opinion about if that should be considered OK, but a possible explanation for your observations.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:08 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: alfonso
I think that if you advance 3 hexes westward each turn, and your rail network extends 3 hexes westward each turn, your units can be supplied more or less adequately (or even adequately) by rail supply. The HQ supply role (their depots) become (more) relevant when your unit is not so near of your rail grid. I suppose you still have the HQ leader role in function, but you will not have their support unit function, and their support squad function.
Please note that I am not giving an opinion about if that should be considered OK, but a possible explanation for your observations.
So basically we can condense a 300 page manual into move you units forward and keep a rail construction unit repairing lines as near as possible.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:25 pm
by alfonso
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
[... move you units forward and keep a rail construction unit repairing lines as near as possible.
It seems a sound strategy...
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:32 pm
by ParaB
ORIGINAL: alfonso
I think that if you advance 3 hexes westward each turn, and your rail network extends 3 hexes westward each turn, your units can be supplied more or less adequately (or even adequately) by rail supply. The HQ supply role (their depots) become (more) relevant when your unit is not so near of your rail grid. I suppose you still have the HQ leader role in function, but you will not have their support unit function, and their support squad function.
Please note that I am not giving an opinion about if that should be considered OK, but a possible explanation for your observations.
That would make sense. But advancing at the rate of the railroad repair teams is sooo WW1...[;)]
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:38 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: alfonso
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
[... move you units forward and keep a rail construction unit repairing lines as near as possible.
It seems a sound strategy...
Looking at the map you are never really going to be far from a railway and even with the remote controled RR repair units you arnt going to be in trouble so basicallly one should be able to attack all the time. Whilst I would not under estimate the importance of the railway in WWII I think it will always be more associated with the internal combustion engine. I agree the strategy would be sound but it would make playing past December 1941 very very dull
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:42 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: ParaB
ORIGINAL: alfonso
I think that if you advance 3 hexes westward each turn, and your rail network extends 3 hexes westward each turn, your units can be supplied more or less adequately (or even adequately) by rail supply. The HQ supply role (their depots) become (more) relevant when your unit is not so near of your rail grid. I suppose you still have the HQ leader role in function, but you will not have their support unit function, and their support squad function.
Please note that I am not giving an opinion about if that should be considered OK, but a possible explanation for your observations.
That would make sense. But advancing at the rate of the railroad repair teams is sooo WW1...[;)]
Funnily enough I feel more like Haig than Zhukov in my game. you take one hex in every push.
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:50 pm
by Rosseau
The fatigue issue is important. Manual says high fatigue will cut your CV, right? I also "role play" and rest my units as needed. Perhaps the Germans your tank armies are up against are so depleted your bad fatigue doesn't seem apparent in the combat results? I wonder if they came up against decent German resistance?
I haven't gotten far enough to duplicate Smirfy's experience, but this is an important thread. thanks
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:52 pm
by alfonso
ORIGINAL: Smirfy
ORIGINAL: ParaB
ORIGINAL: alfonso
I think that if you advance 3 hexes westward each turn, and your rail network extends 3 hexes westward each turn, your units can be supplied more or less adequately (or even adequately) by rail supply. The HQ supply role (their depots) become (more) relevant when your unit is not so near of your rail grid. I suppose you still have the HQ leader role in function, but you will not have their support unit function, and their support squad function.
Please note that I am not giving an opinion about if that should be considered OK, but a possible explanation for your observations.
That would make sense. But advancing at the rate of the railroad repair teams is sooo WW1...[;)]
Funnily enough I feel more like Haig than Zhukov in my game. you take one hex in every push.
Why dont you try deep envelopments?. It seems funnier, and you will see what happens when you have german Division between your units and your railgrid... And you perhaps will arrive to Berlin sooner
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:08 pm
by Smirfy
ORIGINAL: rosseau
The fatigue issue is important. Manual says high fatigue will cut your CV, right? I also "role play" and rest my units as needed. Perhaps the Germans your tank armies are up against are so depleted your bad fatigue doesn't seem apparent in the combat results? I wonder if they came up against decent German resistance?
I haven't gotten far enough to duplicate Smirfy's experience, but this is an important thread. thanks
I have came up against the top 3 SS PZ divisions (I have destroyed the Tots 3 times
) My units had no problem against them as there is not a much single division can do against 8 Armoured and Mech Corps. My infantry stacks are sitting at 50-70 CV backed by artillery which hits anyting pretty hard.
The fatigue is relative the Germans have been pushed back 300 miles. The operation of fatigue should be better to encourage more realistic and
interesting play like pronouced advantages for rotating units and disadvantages for letting units fight till they drop
RE: Couple of criticisms
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:13 pm
by Flaviusx
Smirfy, try a 43 scenario in PBEM. I think you might just be getting a little jaded on the AI. It plays an adequate defensive game. But it's not von Manstein.
A game against a human is far more gripping and free wheeling (on both sides.)
All my playtesting efforts at present are in this late war period, btw, I've got a second 43 campaign going with Bob and some new late war scenarios.