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RE: Not all railwyas are created equal
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:55 pm
by marty_01
ORIGINAL: 76mm
As to shipping railcars and locomotives by sea: I haven't done any research on this point, but given that the Sovs moved entire factories beyond the Urals, I don't think it would have been beyond them to ship a couple of locomotives to a major port, even if they had to disassemble them.
The USA and UK shipped a fair number of locomotives and rolling stock to the Soviet Union as part of lend lease. I just saw a figure for this in one of the books I am reading. Although it just occured to me that it wasnt explained how the materials were adapted to Soviet gauge sizes. Perhaps they were manufactured based on specifications for Soviet gauge track.
Complete aside, but the same source indicated German locomotives were not insulted sufficiently to deal with the uber cold Russian winters and had issues with maintaining steam pressure as a result. Reduce German rail movement rates during blizzard turns [:)]
RE: Not all railwyas are created equal
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:07 pm
by marty_01
ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas
BTW here is a railway map of the Soviet Union during WW2. The colours only show the different railway administrative regions, so you can ignore those. The interesting thing is it shows which lines are single and which are double tracked. I think it clearly shows the importance of Moscow as a hub. The radial lines are mostly single track. Especially communications to the north-west will be very difficult if Moscow is lost. The importance of the Rostov - Voronezh - Moscow line also stands out.
very nice map. Thanks for posting it.
RE: Not all railwyas are created equal
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:15 pm
by 1jasonoz
I am playing the 42-45 game and have captured Moscow and Leningrad both by June of 43. I am at the mid april 1944 turn, with 272 victory points and am currently East of Moscow by about 15 hexes. My forces are about 4.3 million, with 5000 AFV's (including Axis allies), against 5.5 million Soviets with 9000 AFV's.
My bit problem is my rail lines have been all the way along the soveit border with Poland, and Romania. They have been cut for about 4 turns with no rail repair units going to fix them, and I have approximatley 400,000 replacements sitting in the manpower pool waiting to re-enforce my units, but they can't as the rail lines are cut!!
How can I get my rail lines fixed and get the the supplies and manpower to my units!!!
RE: Not all railwyas are created equal
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:01 pm
by Panama
Nice map Tarhunnas.
RE: Not all railwyas are created equal
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:25 am
by sillyflower
ORIGINAL: Panama
There is no doubt the Soviets were successful in moving large numbers of troops and supplies during the war. The problem is how extensive the rail net is in the game. There should be no bridge over the Volga at Stalingrad. Many of the rails portrayed on the map were practically useless. In 1943 a single rail led from Kastornoe to Kursk. Some track along this line was so poor that horses pulled the freight cars because the rails could not support a locomotive. That was not unusual for much of the single track lines. In the game you can just choo choo along this rail with no problems.
Much of the rail in the Soviet Union used dirt and sand for ballast and there were no tie plates holding the rail to the ties. They simple drove the spikes into the ties. If any of you know anything about rail then you know dirt and sand provide no drainage and do a very poor job of distributing weight over the rail. Lack of plates also creates problems. All of this ends up with spikes pulled out of rails, rapid rotting of ties and track failure. Trains have to move much slower and stop more frequently for derailment. Weight of cars and locomotives become limited.
No one has ever bothered to research the state of the different railroad lines depicted in the game. There are so many misrepresentations of the rail net in the game as to be ludicrous. If you've played as the Soviet you know how important rail movement is. That is why it should be modeled properly.
+1.
It is a stain on the souls of the design team especially Pavel from whom we have learned to expect so much better.
The proper solution is to have every hexside with a rail line to have its own MP vaue to reflect this, each of which then needs to be modified for various weather conditions as that effect will also differ depending on railway type /quality in each hex.
Certain vehicles should be prevented from using certain types of railhex ( car weight restrictions) which would stop units with heavy tanks from being railed willy-nilly.
I think, however that the values above should be fixed because to make in-game adjustments to allow for effects of wear and tear based on levels use use would just be over complicating things unecessarily but I do accept the rights of others to disagree with me on this.
I dream that Sid Meier could be persuaded to do a suitable mod.
RE: Not all railwyas are created equal
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:09 pm
by Panama
Pavel has done an excellent job. The entire design team has. There are just too many rail lines. Remove some of the minor ones.
RE: Not all railwyas are created equal
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:55 am
by sillyflower
ORIGINAL: Panama
Pavel has done an excellent job. The entire design team has.
I know. It's called irony.