Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Pawlock
Just to be crystal clear on this section below:

3) New Rules – (Section 9.2.4) – Soviet non-guards units that are directly attached to a Guards Army HQ will receive a five point bonus to their national morale. Shock Army HQs do not provide a morale benefit to guards units. Guards Army and Shock Army HQs do not provide their +5 bonus to non-guards units if their command limit is exceeded (they must be within their command limit for any units under their command to receive a benefit).


There is absolutly no advantage to be gained by attaching guard units to shock armies? in fact you would be disadvantaging yourself by doing so as you would be denying normal units the moral bonus?

Wrong. Guards units get a morale bonus for being guards. If they are guards units, they don't get an *additional* bonus for being in a Guards, or Shock Army. This is to prevent stacking of the morale bonuses.

Actually I think you two are agreeing. Attaching Guards to Shock Armies provides no additional benefit, and if the Guards unit forces the Shock Army over its command limit, then yes, it would be causing the loss of benefits to other units.

Is there any easy way to see if an army is over its command limit? I check the Commanders Report, but that is kind of awkward.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Pawlock
Just to be crystal clear on this section below:

3) New Rules – (Section 9.2.4) – Soviet non-guards units that are directly attached to a Guards Army HQ will receive a five point bonus to their national morale. Shock Army HQs do not provide a morale benefit to guards units. Guards Army and Shock Army HQs do not provide their +5 bonus to non-guards units if their command limit is exceeded (they must be within their command limit for any units under their command to receive a benefit).


There is absolutly no advantage to be gained by attaching guard units to shock armies? in fact you would be disadvantaging yourself by doing so as you would be denying normal units the moral bonus?

Wrong. Guards units get a morale bonus for being guards. If they are guards units, they don't get an *additional* bonus for being in a Guards, or Shock Army. This is to prevent stacking of the morale bonuses.

Yes I know guards units get a bonus simply for being those units, but you answered my main query in a way because I was pertaining in a roundabout way to stacking bonuses which was what I use to do.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Actually I think you two are agreeing. Attaching Guards to Shock Armies provides no additional benefit, and if the Guards unit forces the Shock Army over its command limit, then yes, it would be causing the loss of benefits to other units.

Hmmm, yes, but the net effect could well be that players would be filling the Guards and Shock armies with regular units, while putting Guards divisions in regular armies to maximise the benefits, which would be kind of the opposite to historical practice.

Thanks Joel, again this is what I wanted cleared up.

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Actually I think you two are agreeing. Attaching Guards to Shock Armies provides no additional benefit, and if the Guards unit forces the Shock Army over its command limit, then yes, it would be causing the loss of benefits to other units.

Hmmm, yes, but the net effect could well be that players would be filling the Guards and Shock armies with regular units, while putting Guards divisions in regular armies to maximise the benefits.

Yes this is what I will be doing from now on, pointless filling up shock armies with guards units anymore.

Nice test!

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Actually I think you two are agreeing. Attaching Guards to Shock Armies provides no additional benefit, and if the Guards unit forces the Shock Army over its command limit, then yes, it would be causing the loss of benefits to other units.

Hmmm, yes, but the net effect could well be that players would be filling the Guards and Shock armies with regular units, while putting Guards divisions in regular armies to maximise the benefits, which would be kind of the opposite to historical practice.

Well, yes, I haven't got any guards armies yet but I've already taken a guards division out of a shock army cos it's pointless. If that's where they were used, give me a reason to put it back in please.

which would be kind of the opposite to historical practice.

No.

Yes this is what I will be doing from now on, pointless filling up shock armies with guards units anymore.

Shock armies appear when you don't have many guards. Also the bonus in discussion is greatly overestimated. Now when command limit is introduced it is not possible to breed "higher" morale units but attaching everything you have to Shock Army.

Is there any easy way to see if an army is over its command limit? I check the Commanders Report, but that is kind of awkward.

CP (command penalty) column in CR on HQ tab.

Quickest way to see if an HQ is overloaded, assuming you know it's limit, is try to attach a nearby unit to it. You can read off the list of HQs how much free space each has.

ORIGINAL: Mehring

Quickest way to see if an HQ is overloaded, assuming you know it's limit, is try to attach a nearby unit to it. You can read off the list of HQs how much free space each has.

If wondering about a specific HQ, or just of a few in an area, click on the HQ, its unit bar information has a Command Points entry. It is listed as CP used by currently attached units/ maximum command capacity.

For example a typical German Corps HQ has a CC (Command Capacity) of 8, and so if it has three divisions attached it will be listed as 6/8.

Check the manual for where exactly the number is listed (it would be better than me trying to describe it). Section 5.2.3, pages 58 and 59.

Thanks neuromancer! That was exactly what I was looking for. I never realized that was command points, the tank graphic led me to believe it had something to do with AFVs.

Yes, nice find. Not self evident, is it?

Tarhunnas - glad to help.

Mehring - no not really intuitive at all.  Its a problem with games like this.  I think I stumbled across it while reading the manual (I read the thing front to back over the course of a couple weeks, how much I retained is rather questionable) and later thought "hey!  I saw something about that..." chased it down, and 'ta da!'  Definitely handy to have.