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RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:27 pm
by bk19@mweb.co.za
Yaarr.....
Stripping the UK of supply is an abomination.......... shocking behaviour.
How do you motivate this action after all the effort it has taken to get it from the US to the UK in the first place.
Further, you give the U-boat captains a second crack at destroying the same material?
Do you have Churchills OK for this?
Yaaarr!!!!!
Pirates everywhere it seems
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:33 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: USS America
I don't have the chart in front of me at work, but I'm pretty sure the off map distance between CT and the UK is shorter than from CT to the East Coast of the US. Not a fuel impact, but transit time.
UK to CT is 152. EC to CT is 170. So it is slightly closer. However, UK doesn't produce enough organic supply and fuel to keep up with demand, while the EC does. If you want to run CS convoys from EC to UK to stock UK you can, but the total system time to CT is far more than a straight shot from EC to CT, especially since you must load/unload to stock the UK, then re-load for CT. Particularly in 1942 when Oz is starving for help I don't see the UK as helpful. Historical purists might want to play that way for emotional reasons though. I understand that.
Fortunate the game has no U-boats.[:)]
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:37 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
WHAT??? IS that really true USS America (Mike)? How did I miss that??? I've been loading troops and AC all this time for nothing??? Boy do I feel stupid.....Hal
It happened to me too. I got wise to the aircraft transfers very early, but I never thought to try LCU transfers until I saw it mentioned here a month ago or so. I felt really dumb. [:)]
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:43 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
Well I'll be DARNED... notice the anti inflammatory term..... I don't think that's fair... but if that's the rules, I'm sure glad I found out about it in March '42 and not March '45!!! Do others agree with this concept???? Hal
The concept was discussed by the devs a lot when the game was new. There was a lot of Allied shipping in the Atlantic which isn't modeled in the game. A PacFlt xAP wouldn't have been sent from Darwin to Norfolk, VA to fetch troops. They would have been moved to the edge of the PTO by LantFlt assets. Similarly, the no-fuel aspect of off-map movement uses this logic as well. Transports would have refueled at the Azores, or come down the coast of S. America or similar before heading east for Cape Town. Those ports would have refueled them. So they're not teleporting without fuel, but are getting fuel outside the economy of AE.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:45 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: USS America
ORIGINAL: David The Great
Can you move LCU etc. betweet EC and Aden without using transports ?
Nope, they are not directly connected...... maybe possible after the Med link opens up sometime in '43. I can't remember the exact mechanics of how to order them to transfer as I'm at work, but I'm sure someone can provide the details.
EC to Aden works great after Aden opens in May 1943. To move LCUs off-map I recall you need to put them in Move mode and click on the recieving base. There is a confirmation window pop-up to confirm. Air units are Transfered off-map using that button in the same manner they Transfer on-map.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:50 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Chris H
Actually it is possible to drain any of the off map bases so you do need to watch it. Having said that it's better on the map than off it.
EC in my game generates 65000 supply and either 4000 or 40,000 fuel (the number runs underneath another portion of the text window.) I've never come close to draining EC in either game. Not even close. Right now in 1945 my EC has 45.8 MILLION fuel on hand.
UK auto-generates 5000/500 supplies/fuel. It's easy to drain it in the early game.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:57 pm
by Mike Solli
Man Bullwinkle, now you're starting to depress me. 45 million fuel?! What I'd give for 10% of that. Sheesh. Hell, 1% is a windfall for the Japanese.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:02 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Man Bullwinkle, now you're starting to depress me. 45 million fuel?! What I'd give for 10% of that. Sheesh. Hell, 1% is a windfall for the Japanese.
[8D]
To further depress you, EC has that bounty mostly because I hold Balikpapan, Soerbaja, Miri (plus all of north Borneo) , Medan (and all of Sumatra ex-Palembang and OosterOoster.) I haven't hauled fuel from out of theater in nearly a year. I have CS convoys from Soerbaja and Balikpapan dumping millions of points into Manila, where I have circa 1000 ships ready to take Formosa any time I load them.
Have a goood day, JFB!!! [:)]
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:03 pm
by Mike Solli
Please tell me you're playing the AI......please? [:(]
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:09 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Please tell me you're playing the AI......please? [:(]
Yes.
But few PBEM games get to March 1945 where I am now. The Allied war machine is fearsome in either case.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:13 pm
by Chris21wen
Keep Allied industry supplied with raw materials Oil/Resorces especially early doors.
Aus only produces 50 oil per turn but requires 550 to make its industry run so ship as much oil as you can from the DEI/Moluccas Is to the east coast of Aus.
India, Canada and the Continental US have no spare oil production capacity but you can ship the stored oil from the WC.
Although India produces as much oil as it needs (but no spare capacity) I find the distribution of the oil/resources a problem resulting in shortages. I've found out that locking bases that are repeatedly short of raw material helps prevent this. This also works with fuel/supply.
All other oil production locations other than in the first few turns are either land locked (China, Burma), initially not available (Sakhalin) or under Japanese immediate threat (DEI/Moluccas Is). I load up any and everything that can carry oil/fuel and attempt to get the heck out of dodge, even if it means part loads. Going back for more is hazardous but you can still do so from the DEI/Moloccus Is for some time. You'll know when to stop trying.
The only other source of oil you have is 50 from Abadan. Initially I send it to India to build up a small reserve but Its really need in Aus so I send it to Perth eventually.
Resources are no problem other than North Is NZ, Hawaii and parts of China all of which have a production deficit
One last tip on supply.
Judicial use the 'supply requires' button and Command HQs can help get supply to bases at the end secondary roads. For instance I parked the Australia Cammand in Alice and set it to max 'supply request'. Working back from the end of the chain Dawin and Wyndham had one click up, Fenton 2 clicks, Katherine 4 clicks (as it had to also supply itself, Wyndham, Darwin and Fenton). This seems to keep the bases supplied with basics which includes construction but you will still have to ship more for any offensive ops you carry out. You might even need to lock supply at Darwin to prevent the other bases sucking supply back.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:17 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Chris H
Keep Allied industry supplied with raw materials Oil/Resorces especially early doors.
Aus only produces 50 oil per turn but requires 550 to make its industry run so ship as much oil as you can from the DEI/Moluccas Is to the east coast of Aus.
India, Canada and the Continental US have no spare oil production capacity but you can ship the stored oil from the WC.
Although India produces as much oil as it needs (but no spare capacity) I find the distribution of the oil/resources a problem resulting in shortages. I've found out that locking bases that are repeatedly short of raw material helps prevent this. This also works with fuel/supply.
All other oil production locations other than in the first few turns are either land locked (China, Burma), initially not available (Sakhalin) or under Japanese immediate threat (DEI/Moluccas Is). I load up any and everything that can carry oil/fuel and attempt to get the heck out of dodge, even if it means part loads. Going back for more is hazardous but you can still do so from the DEI/Moloccus Is for some time. You'll know when to stop trying.
The only other source of oil you have is 50 from Abadan. Initially I send it to India to build up a small reserve but Its really need in Aus so I send it to Perth eventually.
Resources are no problem other than North Is NZ, Hawaii and parts of China all of which have a production deficit
One last tip on supply.
Judicial use the 'supply requires' button and Command HQs can help get supply to bases at the end secondary roads. For instance I parked the Australia Cammand in Alice and set it to max 'supply request'. Working back from the end of the chain Dawin and Wyndham had one click up, Fenton 2 clicks, Katherine 4 clicks (as it had to also supply itself, Wyndham, Darwin and Fenton). This seems to keep the bases supplied with basics which includes construction but you will still have to ship more for any offensive ops you carry out. You might even need to lock supply at Darwin to prevent the other bases sucking supply back.
Whether to ever ship oil as the Allies is an old debate, so I won't go there again. If it pleases you, go for it.
Question: why not put Australia Command in Darwin itself and suck supplies there? Why do even care if Katherine has even one point?
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:25 pm
by HansBolter
maybe because bases drained of supplies don't contribute victory points
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:26 pm
by Chris21wen
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Chris H
Actually it is possible to drain any of the off map bases so you do need to watch it. Having said that it's better on the map than off it.
EC in my game generates 65000 supply and either 4000 or 40,000 fuel (the number runs underneath another portion of the text window.) I've never come close to draining EC in either game. Not even close. Right now in 1945 my EC has 45.8 MILLION fuel on hand.
UK auto-generates 5000/500 supplies/fuel. It's easy to drain it in the early game.
EC fuel's OK (25.5M) but you can easily drain supply (63K) but that's not to say it doesn't build up again, just watch it. I now have 15-20 large xAK plying back and forwards to Cape but had more initially and did run out.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:29 pm
by USSAmerica
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
maybe because bases drained of supplies don't contribute victory points
This is an issue only if the base actually "requires" supply. If there are no air/land units there, then it does not require any.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:31 pm
by Chris21wen
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Question: why not put Australia Command in Darwin itself and suck supplies there? Why do even care if Katherine has even one point?
I have no proof here but a command HQ at the end of a secondary road does not seem to draw the same amount of supply as one at the end of a rail line and is therefore less effective.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:34 pm
by Treetop64
ORIGINAL: USS America
ORIGINAL: dr.hal
Well I'll be DARNED... notice the anti inflammatory term..... I don't think that's fair... but if that's the rules, I'm sure glad I found out about it in March '42 and not March '45!!! Do others agree with this concept???? Hal
I absolutely agree, Hal. The ships in game are representative of those available in the Pacific Theater. There are thousands more ships that were used in the Atlantic, Med, etc.
+1
Shipping in the parts of the world not represented in the game is assumed, so that's why you can send troops and planes from one off-map hex to another - except the Med in the early parts, of course.
Ok, that's basically what USS America just said, but yeah...
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:46 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Chris H
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Question: why not put Australia Command in Darwin itself and suck supplies there? Why do even care if Katherine has even one point?
I have no proof here but a command HQ at the end of a secondary road does not seem to draw the same amount of supply as one at the end of a rail line and is therefore less effective.
I don't have any hard data either, but I'm still confused. If you pull 25k to Alice with the national HQ, don't you still have to shove it up that same secondary road to Darwin, but without the pull of the HQ?
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:50 pm
by Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: USS America
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
maybe because bases drained of supplies don't contribute victory points
This is an issue only if the base actually "requires" supply. If there are no air/land units there, then it does not require any.
Correct. I would add that if you're worrying about Katherine's VPs you have bigger problems. [:)]
I did have to pull back to Katherine for about six months when Darwin became impossible to supply due to huge air efforts from Timor. I couldn't keep Darwin over 20k to keep my fighters replaced and on CAP. Even at Katherine the AI bombed me, but at lower levels. My game straddled many patches where logistics was changed (the stockpile command came in after the above events), but even so I learned hard lessons about how to handle Darwin's needs.
RE: Help with Allied Logistics
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:16 pm
by Chris21wen
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Chris H
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Question: why not put Australia Command in Darwin itself and suck supplies there? Why do even care if Katherine has even one point?
I have no proof here but a command HQ at the end of a secondary road does not seem to draw the same amount of supply as one at the end of a rail line and is therefore less effective.
I don't have any hard data either, but I'm still confused. If you pull 25k to Alice with the national HQ, don't you still have to shove it up that same secondary road to Darwin, but without the pull of the HQ?
True but I'm using Alice to supply Brome etc plus I can easily move the HQ by railto other parts of Aus if I needed. To my mind putting it in Darwin will pull supply down a secondary road/rail and back out again to other bases thus costing more, I think.