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Re: Hi all.

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2002 6:37 am
by tracer
Originally posted by Don Doom
Sounds like you are on the right path Tracer. Don't forget if you fill up a terxxx or iconxxx file you can add more locations to the file, And ain't it fun to center all the icons in all four files. In sp1-3 it is five files! when I am backup and fully running I will get back into finishing my new icons for the airfields and shipyard.:D
Hey Don! Looking forward to seeing them!
I figured someone else should ask about and learn the correct procedures, before the few of you who know them take these secrets 'to the grave' :D :D

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2002 8:12 am
by David boutwell
Thanks Tracer,

I've been doing everything correctly except for replacing the unedited file with bignew.shp.

Regards,

David Boutwell

"Out of ammunition. God save the King."

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2002 10:18 pm
by RockinHarry
Great info tracer! I love to learn more where I don´t have time to do it all on my own! :cool: Some things that i remember from past time working with shape edit is that the crosshairs (in shpfix) don´t always move to the right location,...positive as opposed to negative values or vice versa. I found putting a minus ("-") sign directly into the data boxes works quite nice when it´s not possible to move it by use of the buttons/arrows.

_________
Harry

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2002 11:39 pm
by Warhorse
Originally posted by CCB
Have you made any SPWAW 1965 SS Chevy Impala icons?

How about a 1967 Plymouth GTX icon? :D
Oooohh, you got one of those!!??:D :D I got a BIG SS icon out in my garage;)

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 6:25 am
by tracer
Originally posted by RockinHarry
Great info tracer! I love to learn more where I don´t have time to do it all on my own! :cool: Some things that i remember from past time working with shape edit is that the crosshairs (in shpfix) don´t always move to the right location,...positive as opposed to negative values or vice versa. I found putting a minus ("-") sign directly into the data boxes works quite nice when it´s not possible to move it by use of the buttons/arrows.

_________
Harry
Big thanks for that info RH. I have run into that problem a few times...crosshairs would increase the value to zero, but then start moving down again. I never thought to just type a positive value in the box!

I have finished all the buildings in Ter61z4, but before I start on the other zoom levels I'm testing it out on existing maps. I want to make sure the size/positions are similar.

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 7:36 pm
by Grenadier
Originally posted by tracer


One other thing I've learned: I'm not a violent person, but if I ever catch the guy who dumped the Ter61 file into SPWAW...:mad: :D
You can blame me for that. When my Kharkov map was created , Paul Lewis was working on the rowhouses and when he compiled the ter file for the rowhouses he deleted the SP2/WW2 multihex buildings. As a result my Kharkov map was a bunch of 7 hex green blobs. Sop Ter 61 was created to give a home to the SP2/WW2 buildings so the older maps like mine would display properly

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2002 5:57 am
by tracer
Originally posted by Brent


You can blame me for that. When my Kharkov map was created , Paul Lewis was working on the rowhouses and when he compiled the ter file for the rowhouses he deleted the SP2/WW2 multihex buildings. As a result my Kharkov map was a bunch of 7 hex green blobs. Sop Ter 61 was created to give a home to the SP2/WW2 buildings so the older maps like mine would display properly
Ironic: I started this to fix the display problems on that very map, which IMO is the best city map...hands down. The tragic part I learned last night is that once the buildings in Ter61 are fixed (so that they sit within the correct 7-hex area), many on the Kharkov map display even worse! I feel like Sisyphus!!...where's my boulder? http://stripe.colorado.edu/~morristo/sisyphus.html

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2002 7:31 am
by David boutwell
Originally posted by tracer


Ironic: I started this to fix the display problems on that very map, which IMO is the best city map...hands down. The tragic part I learned last night is that once the buildings in Ter61 are fixed (so that they sit within the correct 7-hex area), many on the Kharkov map display even worse! I feel like Sisyphus!!...where's my boulder? http://stripe.colorado.edu/~morristo/sisyphus.html
Here we go, Brent. First of all, Tracer, you qualified your statement by saying, "IMO". I've got no problem with that. But, you also added "hands down", which means to me "no contest". Is that what "hands down" means to you also? If it does, then, Brent, I want to see your Kharkov map. I am tempted to say that my Nijmegen map is "hands down" the best city map, but since I've not seen Brent's map, I'll have to withhold opinion. I'm even willing to let others be the judge....

Tracer, I'm assuming you've seen my city maps? ;) I can take the IMO, but "hands down" is going too far!:)

Regards,

David Boutwell

"Out of ammunition. God save the King."

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2002 8:36 am
by Grenadier
I appreciate your compliment, Tracer, and I share your frustration. Once the buildings were laid down using the old system, converting them to the new centered system basically alters the whole structure of the large Red Sqaure buildings. So I imagine they look like they have been peiced together with zigzag walls. That map is pretty opd by now and the one in Lost Victories is more to scale. I tried modifing it by adding rowhouses, but the only way to redo the map using the new structure you have created in ter 61 would be to put in the buildings with WAWMap as is necessary for any connected multihex buildings.

David, it is in "Blood and Honor" and "Not Another Stalingrad" in the game. Your Nijimen map is excellent. Ther are a LOT of great maps out there and my mapmaking skills are pretty rusty right now so I think there would be a lot of competition for the best city map. Orzel is doing a great job on central Berlin and he is finishing my map of greater Berlin so that may become the new standard to judge by. M4 did a great city map using the pre rowhouse buildings. Marauder did a great map of Arnhem way back when.

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:17 pm
by RockinHarry
Originally posted by tracer


Big thanks for that info RH. I have run into that problem a few times...crosshairs would increase the value to zero, but then start moving down again. I never thought to just type a positive value in the box!

I have finished all the buildings in Ter61z4, but before I start on the other zoom levels I'm testing it out on existing maps. I want to make sure the size/positions are similar.
Yes..one of those limitations of Shape Fix window, just as Fred says it´s still experimental. Nonetheless as I found out I was surprised that entering values directly (as opposed to using 2arrow buttons) worked quite nicely! :) ...IIRC I was close giving up on this issue, just due to the weird behavior of the crosshairs! :rolleyes:

Magnification/zoom levels: The only multihex building that I added and centered from scratch for all levels in some shape file was my wintereized church in Ter50 shape file. I didn´t really take much care on "pixel-correct" centering of the church. I just centered it roughly (on zoom levels z3 to z1) and made sure it "looks" ok later in SPWAW. You wouldn´t notice anyway if a shape is off by 1-2 pixel say. (see file below!)

Thanks again tracer for fixing the Ter61 bugger and sharing your info on how you fix it! :)


__________
Harry

Found a backup of some of my work

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 2:18 am
by Don Doom
Here is one that is in process for a short campaign I have in mind.

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 3:09 am
by tracer
Originally posted by David boutwell


Here we go, Brent. First of all, Tracer, you qualified your statement by saying, "IMO". I've got no problem with that. But, you also added "hands down", which means to me "no contest". Is that what "hands down" means to you also? If it does, then, Brent, I want to see your Kharkov map. I am tempted to say that my Nijmegen map is "hands down" the best city map, but since I've not seen Brent's map, I'll have to withhold opinion. I'm even willing to let others be the judge....

Tracer, I'm assuming you've seen my city maps? ;) I can take the IMO, but "hands down" is going too far!:)

Regards,

David Boutwell

"Out of ammunition. God save the King."
**begin frantic back-pedaling**

Oooh, that did come out wrong! I should have said "my favorite", and no, I haven't looked at any of your maps (that I know of) so "that I've seen" would have been a better choice of words too. In fact the only new map I've downloaded is 'Stalingrad' by M4Jess (which I posted a complimentary thread about), so my opinion is not that of a knowledgable map critic. :D Like Brent points out, Kharkov has been in SPWAW since about v5.x, and I've played numerous PBEMs on it, so I'm familiar with it.

I obviously have some downloading to do! :eek: :D

**end frantic back-pedaling** Whew!

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 3:53 am
by tracer
Originally posted by RockinHarry


Magnification/zoom levels: The only multihex building that I added and centered from scratch for all levels in some shape file was my wintereized church in Ter50 shape file. I didn´t really take much care on "pixel-correct" centering of the church. I just centered it roughly (on zoom levels z3 to z1) and made sure it "looks" ok later in SPWAW. You wouldn´t notice anyway if a shape is off by 1-2 pixel say. (see file below!)

Thanks again tracer for fixing the Ter61 bugger and sharing your info on how you fix it! :)


__________
Harry

Image

Almost looks like an actual aerial photograph...excellent.

If anyone's interested here's Ter61z4 with all the images corrected, but only about 2/3 have been centered with SPFix. http://home.cfl.rr.com/lagoon/upload/Ter61z4.zip

I had to work (real job, not SPWAW!) several extra days, so my progress slowed down a bit. Any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated.

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:20 am
by David boutwell
Good enough, guys!:) I didn't think Tracer realized that I have been _ss deep in the middle of constructing all of the cities involved in the Market-Garden Campaign for the last few years, or seen the ones I've posted at Redleg's. So his enthusiastic support for Brent's work was a blow to my ego. If he had seen my stuff, and made that statement, then I was going to turn in my mouse!

Brent, I looked at your Karkhov map, and I think you did a good job on it. :) One way I judge a city map is if the "strategic" map looks like a map of a city, which yours does. I also judge a city map by whether or not the maker knows how to create very large buildings/complexes when they historically should be there, of which yours has plenty! Another is consistency in architectural style (there aren't a preponderence of Arab mud huts and bazaars in a map of Russia, for example). Your map passes that test as well. For what my opinion is worth.......

I'm not sure that I agree that there are necessarily a "lot" of good maps out there, as it seems to me that to most people, map quality is really secondary to other aspects of a scenario, or they just don't desire to put in the hours that it takes to master/discover the art of map-making. Some very good map-makers just disappear. What happened, for example, to the guy who created the D-Day maps?? Plus, unlike scenario design, there isn't any real, critical feedback (have you ever tried scenario design? People are not afraid to tear you a new rear-end!). There isn't that willingness in the map-making community to say, "Bud, you just need to take it back to the drawing board!" . As a result, the "overall" quality of the maps being done just hasn't advanced that far (IMO).

I have, however, discovered a handful of "new generation" (at least some of you are to me, as I've been here almost since the beginning) map makers who truly do create good stuff, and are "milking" the available tools provided, as is the case with Tracer and Harry, for everything that can be done to improve the art. I am very pleased, as, for a while, I felt that I was the only one in this community who would almost rather be making maps than playing scenarios.

But, I digress....Continue Gentlemen. I'm hanging on every post! Tracer, it's amazing how fast you have "whooped" this problem! Are you graphics artist/designer, or something? I'm saving this thread so that I can learn from it and dig into the multi-hex residential buildings, as well as some of the MH city buildings when I can come up with the time (you've already done the Ter61 file, so there's no sense in reinventing the wheel!)

Regards,

David Boutwell

"Out of ammunition. God save the King."

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 7:42 pm
by tracer
Just want to clarify: I'm only editing existing images. My only ability in painting involves semi-gloss latex. The talent lies with the artists who created them, many of whom do so free of charge. I know alot of them from their posts here, but I realize there are many I don't know, so I better not use names...I learned my lesson about 'unintentionally insulting by omission'!! :D

There have been a couple messages lately reminding folks to post feedback about maps, scenarios, etc.. From my (very) small trip into the world of editing I'm beginning to appreciate the dedication of the designers alot more. When I look at some of their offerings I'm amazed at the amount of their free time they selflessly donated. Its not ego or vanity, just simple 'love of the game'; a few keystrokes from us simply acknowledging their effort goes a long way. It may seem like a cheap price to pay, but to the designers its priceless.

Side note: I remember Hellcat started a project a few months back...making a central, searchable map/scenario directory. I know he's been AWOL (not by choice!), but I was wondering if anyone knows where this project stands.

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:56 pm
by RockinHarry
Originally posted by tracer



Image

Almost looks like an actual aerial photograph...excellent.

If anyone's interested here's Ter61z4 with all the images corrected, but only about 2/3 have been centered with SPFix. http://home.cfl.rr.com/lagoon/upload/Ter61z4.zip

I had to work (real job, not SPWAW!) several extra days, so my progress slowed down a bit. Any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated.
thanks for your efforts tracer! I´ll have a look at your work in progress!:) ...I´m actually doing the shape edits the same as you do, I just take the existing images and recombine or recolor them to my own needs! The winterized church is the original church from Ter50 file and I rotated it to fit to my ardennes map. Next step was to convert the exportrd BMP to greyscale (to suck the color out of the pic :D ). Last I tweaked the highlight, midtone and shadows.

If one knows all the shape graphics from the TerXX files you easily can find some good stuff to tinker with and edit to your own needs in comparatively short time!

Maybe I´ll make some stuff from scratch someday and it surely wil be an interesting experience to do it like the profs! Making 3D models in a 3D graphics application and then take the rendered top view of the final image! :eek: I think this is how most of the SPWAW graphics (..and maaaaaany other games) were made from.

__________
Harry