Matrix Games Forums

Wodin, yes, I know, I have recently read most excellent Ian Kershaw's book about Hitler.

In fact to me this movie Stalingrad does have a message. But a positive one. Made on the 90s. A [German] society that has 100% accepted (except some lunatics of course) what they did was atrocious. This, I clearly see when I watch the movie...

Now think about er... the Japanese. Revisionism is still really strong. To Japanese society for example the Rape of Nanjing is a myth, along with the many other atrocities.

Not sure if this movie wanted to sell this message, but it's what I perceive. Just like I perceive a guy who loves blood and violence when I watch Peckinpah's movies [8D]

Now of course we have fraulein Merkel & the austerity thing from hell in Europe but let's drop that [:D]

Poor Fraulein Merkel...as I said once .....or was it told TO me?...I do not remember.
When you are out on a drunken spree be careful who you bring home at the end of the night.
Jao and Juan and Giovanni and Sean and Iaonnos may be fun guys, no doubt about it, but in the morning....what a mess!
good luck and try not to drag me down with you.

Stalingrad political vulgarities...care to explain.

For example the devilish German officer whose one and only task in the movie is to be evil...
Also when during the travel by train the Private offends the Officer by telling him: You will die, I will survive. This is completeley ahistorical nonsense, no soldier of WW II did such thing. The director of the movie seems to have felt the pressure to make the German officers the guilty ones, so that the Privates could get some empathy by the public.
This I mean by "political vulgarities". Maybe it is not a good expression for what I mean: ideological phrases, political correct statements, black and white, to whitewash the movie of the accuse of being not anti-war or anti-nazi enough, because otherwise the movie would get into problems, and certainly its director.

Also wasn't Dogs do you want to live forever a film rife with propaganda of the times.

It certainly was superficial about the cruelty of war, but quite correct in the portray and atmosphere of the army communication and the "normal front life". Also quite correct in telling the operational and tactical situations. Remember that normal experience of war was not sensational fighting or cruelties, but a quite boring waiting for action, and dealing with the military bureaucracy.
Movies like Enemy at the Gates have nothing to do with history, in comparison to that you can call "Dogs do you want to live forever" a documentary movie.

ORIGINAL: danlongman

Poor Fraulein Merkel...as I said once .....or was it told TO me?...I do not remember.
When you are out on a drunken spree be careful who you bring home at the end of the night.
Jao and Juan and Giovanni and Sean and Iaonnos may be fun guys, no doubt about it, but in the morning....what a mess!
good luck and try not to drag me down with you.

Yes, but she paid the drinks and clearly wanted to get them drunk! [:D]

One of the movies i really like is Die Brücke/The Bridge in the old version (not the new one!). Its more an anti-war movie instead of a war movie, but still very good. Not sure if you can find a youtube link for it, but i can't check youtube from work. [:)]

"Cross of Iron" is one of the best war films, and certainly about as good as you are going to get about the eastern front.

EATG is like Pearl Harbour

If you haven't seen it, then "Downfall" (the last days of Hitler) and "Conspiracy" ( the meeting that decided on the extermination of the Jews) are about as good as you are going to get for war movies.

Thanks for the link to "Dogs". Moving and informative.

ORIGINAL: Tauroggen

I also do not like this movie "Stalingrad" because of all its political vulgarities.

Tarkovskis "Ivans Childhood" you can watch in youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_vME7D0 ... ure=fvwrel

Tarkovski is a great man!
This is his masterpiece, "the mirror", plays also during World War 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCTMM1iZ ... ture=mv_sr

I find that Douglas Sirk: A Time to Love and a Time to Die (1958) is quite a good movie about the Eastern Front
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsq7PH3g ... re=related

Quite authentic, and maybe still the best German Stalingrad-movie is
"Dogs, Do You Want to Live Forever?" (1959)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kJ9Dtxpf-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5R_bk_lRcE
and the other parts:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... nw6p_Y0oOU

The German movie called "08/15" with Gefreiter (Corporal) Asch you can find here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRVj4HKSYBw
I think the movie is superficial.


Soviet movies I found on youtube are:

This two movies, "the break-through", are about the battle of Kursk and the following campaigns: full of Soviet Propaganda, but very impressive and expensive, Hollywood-like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgTLjkxw ... ton&wide=1
From min 48 on you can see that the Soviet film industry seemed to have a few Tiger tanks for their movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iyuc_0h ... ton&wide=1


This one, "ballad of a soldier", sings the hymn for a Russian hero soldier, in Soviet Propaganda Style, but also impressive pictures of Russian soul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0zr8772 ... ton&wide=1