Matrix Games Forums

Hi,

That's a great idea! I would love to hear Rader's thoughts on aircraft R&D. (Understatement of forever) He seemed to do fairly well in his game with GreyJoy! [:D]

Joe

It's great to see you back in a big way, Greyjoy. Lot's of great advice being given to you already on the Japanese side of things, so I'll simply say good luck! You'll get tons of advice/help playing Japan, just as you did when tackling the Allies.

Cheers!

IIRC , Rader did get the advantage of a couple of R&D version bugs that have since changed. Might remember that wrong, and I don't think it made a massive amount of difference. Rader as the master of R&D and manged to get the best planes in the air on way sooner that anyone else did

Rader told me that he didn't do anything special with the R&D, except for using all the bonuses present in the code itself. So to say the engine bonus (which is HUGE!). For the training program he relied on quantity vs. quality, so LOTS of a/c with average trained pilots....all his pilots were around 60 in the major skill...nothing that impressive.
I had more than 300 pilots in their 90 experience!...but his numbers were so high that it didn't matter much.
It's a kind of soviet doctrine [:)]
 
However i wanna have HRs for the R&D program. 6 months is the max i can accept. So even if i manage to get the Shidens in 12/44 (as Rader did) they won't be able to fly untill 6 months before the stock production date. seems reasonable to me.
 
Back to the game...
 
I'm moving all those merchant shippings to Japanese lvl 9 or 10 Ports...it's a boring process i can tell you! There they will re-converted as needed and the rest will be grouped to formed the first convoys. Still grouping the ships i need for the 33rd and the 2nd Divisions...
 
Having problems with Tracker.... Damian is helping me but i think i won't be able to run it on my laptop cause it's using a 64bit Windows 7 OS [:(]

You should be able to get Tracker to work with your OS. Remember that Tracker uses the 32 bit version of Java, not the 64 bit version. I would think that Damien will help you get that resolved. If not, the forum knows all and will help.

Damian is helping me. Should work it out soon hopefully.
 
In the meanwhile my lessons with NY59Giants continue. He's amazing as a teatcher!
 
I hate all those regiments that compose the attacking divisions scattered around the globe in different TFs and locations with different preparations....[:@] Trying to figure out a plan...
 
Ok, serious things now. I added the Mary in the production list and lowered the numbers of every A/C produced. As soon as the supplies are stabilized we'll augment them.
 
Tomorrow i'll do the whole engine stuff and possibly the R&D (if the damned job doesn't kick in!).
 
All the merchants not directly used in the first couple of turns are being redirected to major ports.
For the conversions i'm mixing togheder the advices of NY59, Mike S., Damian and K Freur. For the moment this is my plan:
 
To'su -> 25 PBs and 10 ACMs
Kiso-E -> 29 PBs and 30 ACMs
Daigen, Kasu, Miyati and Gozan will be left as they are
Ansyu-C ->24 PBs and 20 AKEs
Std-C -> 17 TKs
Toho, Ehime, Akasi -> all of them converted to carry troops.
Husimi -> 5 AKs, 6 ARs
Aden -> 12 AKEss, 6 AKVs
Kyushu -> 10 AKEs, 5 ARs, 2 ASs, 1 AV
Yusen N -> 10 AKEs, 47 AKs
Lima -> leave as they are
Yusen A and Yusen S -> leave as they are
 
Do you think it's ok?
 
 

52 AKEs ? Thats uh... alot.

Given his credentials, I doubt NYGiants is actually of much help to GreyJoy.  NYGiants attended Klempsin Kollidge in upstate South Carolina.  That's the equivalent of attending the Messina School of Barnacle Photography in Sicily.  Be skeptical of anything he tells you....

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

To'su -> 25 PBs and 10 ACMs
Kiso-E -> 29 PBs and 30 ACMs

Daigen, Kasu, Miyati and Gozan will be left as they are

The To'su make better PBs as they improve speed to 12 knots, somehow. Matches your workhorse ships like the Aden class. The Kiso-E are nearly worthless, but I still make some as PBs.

You might want 10-15 AGs or so to go in bases you're pulling resources/oil/fuel from, to refill ASW racks for the escorts. Gozen are good for this. Some AD as well, but I can't remember which convert to those.

Ansyu-C ->24 PBs and 20 AKEs

These are 14 knot ships! Make ALL PBs. It's your best patrol boat and works well for fast transport as well, still keeping 1000 cargo space.

Make a bunch of Aden class AKE. You have a ton of them and they're only 12 knots, so more expendable. They're big enough to service most ships, and in the right port, even BB. You may have to make a few Lima class AKE also.

Std-C -> 17 TKs
Toho, Ehime, Akasi -> all of them converted to carry troops.
Husimi -> 5 AKs, 6 ARs

You won't need all Toho, Ehime, Akasi converted. You have a bunch. You might want these for quick hauling of smaller units and supply, but not divisions. Those will go on the 15 knot + ships, and most likely always on xAP and Kyushu/Yusen.

I made a few Husimi AVs as well, and some AS. But you have to wait until June to start the AR/AS/AK.

Aden -> 12 AKEss, 6 AKVs
Kyushu -> 10 AKEs, 5 ARs, 2 ASs, 1 AV
Yusen N -> 10 AKEs, 47 AKs
Lima -> leave as they are
Yusen A and Yusen S -> leave as they are

Do you think it's ok?

I don't really use AKVs. If you do, make them a faster ship than an Aden. No sense getting your air group sunk needlessly. I just fly them or load onto a normal Kyushu if I can't. Remember the incredible range of most Japanese planes. Might make a few later for invasions, but that's it.

Leave Kyushu's for troops, make them AKs in June. Don't waste that speed in port. Same with Yusens.

You won't need that many AKEs in the first 6 months anyway. Go more slowly with those. They're quick if you need more, but it would suck to not have enough to haul troops/units quickly.

PS - You're doing amazingly well with all of these Japanese names! Hard to keep track of for me even after starting 3 PBEMs now.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Given his credentials, I doubt NYGiants is actually of much help to GreyJoy.  NYGiants attended Klempsin Kollidge in upstate South Carolina.  That's the equivalent of attending the Messina School of Barnacle Photography in Sicily.  Be skeptical of anything he tells you....

As a descendant of rabid SC Gamecock fans, I must agree with this statement despite the fact that nygiants59 is amazingly helpful, even when accounting for his unfortunate choice of "University." [:D]

Given his credentials, I doubt NYGiants is actually of much help to GreyJoy.  NYGiants attended Klempsin Kollidge in upstate South Carolina.  That's the equivalent of attending the Messina School of Barnacle Photography in Sicily.  Be skeptical of anything he tells you....

Somebody had to bring some high class to the South.

Once a damn Yankee, always a damn Yankee. [:D]

To'su -> 25 PBs and 10 ACMs
Kiso-E -> 29 PBs and 30 ACMs
Daigen, Kasu, Miyati and Gozan will be left as they are
Ansyu-C ->24 PBs and 20 AKEs
Std-C -> 17 TKs
Toho, Ehime, Akasi -> all of them converted to carry troops.
Husimi -> 5 AKs, 6 ARs
Aden -> 12 AKEss, 6 AKVs
Kyushu -> 10 AKEs, 5 ARs, 2 ASs, 1 AV
Yusen N -> 10 AKEs, 47 AKs
Lima -> leave as they are
Yusen A and Yusen S -> leave as they are

Kiso - No choice in this mod , all to PBs
Ansyu-C - ALL to PBs, trust me on this. You need them for long distant escort of transports.
Std 'x' - many of them to TKs, but not able to June '42.
Aden - A handful to carry troops, the rest stay as is. They are your workhorse for carrying Resources back to Japan.
Lima - 6 to AKEs

Many of your double capacity (cargo and liquid) are useful to carry back Resources and Oil in a Cargo TF.

2 to 3 more AS, 6 ARs when able, don't need all those AKEs. [:-]

OT - I have all of Japan and KB redone for my practice Turn 1 to send to you. Will finish up tomorrow.

This is part of my email to GreyJoy about re-arrangement of ships at Samah for the invasion of Malaya (and slightly beyond [;)]).

Edit - per request [;)]

Ok, here's the final planning production orders... still not done the R&D....[>:]
 
Zeros: from 56 to 108 (2 factories)
B5N1: from 0 to 15 ( 1 factory)
B5N2: from 0 to 20 (1 factory)
Val: from 12 to 24 (1 factory)
Jake: leave at 27
Glen: from 9 to 10
Nell: from 22 to 30
Betty: from 25 to 30
Mavis: from 6 to 12
Sally IIa: from 23 to 30
Mary: 10
Oscar: 3 factories up to 86
Dinah II: 15
Lily: 34
Topsy: 10
Tina: 6
 
The engines requirements are:
 
278 Ha-35
171 Ha -33
120 Ha-32
30 Ha-31
20 Ha-5
15 Nakasjima H.
10 Hitachi A.
 
And here's what i'm planning to produce:
 
305 Ha-35
180 Ha-33
120 Ha-32
50 Ha-34
45 Ha-31
20 Ha-5
11 Hitachi A.

Excited for this one to get going and to see your tactical plans!

For the engines you'll most likely need more Ha-32, but you can save that until later.

Be careful on the R n D. Do the most soon to appear first, and you can load up on a few factories for each of the ones you want to carry over to the next model. Like the Helen. I think 3 should get that plane two months ahead as they will repair quickly as Helen I factories.

Having just assessed my own first year I would change a few things.

recon -I would not research any recon planes. They are great, but it would be too much of an investment to get them any earlier.

transport - I made the mistake of researching the Tabby, only to find out later it is only used by the IJNAF! Oops. I will use mostly the Emily-Ls for those units, so no sense researching this.

bombers - I researched one Betty model. I would not again. The Frances will be the mainstay once it arrives. The Judy and the Grace are worth a good amount of research also.

fighters-IJNAF - I still think it a good idea to research the A6M3 and the A6M2-N and upgrade the factories once they are finished repairing and researching to the next models, the A6M3a and the A6M5. These two planes will be your main IJN and KB fighters for the middle war. You can then decide whether you care to keep researching the line or convert them to another research project or to production. One thing i did not take enough care of is keeping a lot of factories as research for late war planes.

I would make more than the 3 George factories I now have as well.

fighters-IJAAF - More Tojo. I haven't decided if the late Tonys will be useful or not yet, but I have committed to the line. I'll only use the later models. You know more about these than most japanese players, as you faced them all, but just put more into the better ones and you'll be fine.

ORIGINAL: obvert

Excited for this one to get going and to see your tactical plans!

For the engines you'll most likely need more Ha-32, but you can save that until later.

Be careful on the R n D. Do the most soon to appear first, and you can load up on a few factories for each of the ones you want to carry over to the next model. Like the Helen. I think 3 should get that plane two months ahead as they will repair quickly as Helen I factories.

Having just assessed my own first year I would change a few things.

recon -I would not research any recon planes. They are great, but it would be too much of an investment to get them any earlier.

transport - I made the mistake of researching the Tabby, only to find out later it is only used by the IJNAF! Oops. I will use mostly the Emily-Ls for those units, so no sense researching this.

bombers - I researched one Betty model. I would not again. The Frances will be the mainstay once it arrives. The Judy and the Grace are worth a good amount of research also.

fighters-IJNAF - I still think it a good idea to research the A6M3 and the A6M2-N and upgrade the factories once they are finished repairing and researching to the next models, the A6M3a and the A6M5. These two planes will be your main IJN and KB fighters for the middle war. You can then decide whether you care to keep researching the line or convert them to another research project or to production. One thing i did not take enough care of is keeping a lot of factories as research for late war planes.

I would make more than the 3 George factories I now have as well.

fighters-IJAAF - More Tojo. I haven't decided if the late Tonys will be useful or not yet, but I have committed to the line. I'll only use the later models. You know more about these than most japanese players, as you faced them all, but just put more into the better ones and you'll be fine.

Thanks Obvert! You're too kind!

I'll have to listen to the opinion of the one who's teaching me everything about the Jap first moves...NY59Giants! (he's being amazingly patient and gentle to me!)

However, as said before, i wanna keep the whole R&D into a realistic world, so to say there will be an HR in this game that will keep out of the equation every japanese plane whose R&D has brought it more than 6 months earlier than the stock arrival date.

That's why i don't wanna waste too many HI and supply points in R&D.... and i also want to rationalize the overall production. Very few types of planes for precise and not exchangeble roles. For ex. i wanna skip the jack (every version). I've faced it many times and i can tell you that it doesn't give any real defensive advantage against late war allied fighters.

The Navy will only have the N1K2 as plane for the role of CAP and sweep, while the zero will only be used for escort role (and for CVs obviously).
The IJAAf will have the George for CAP and SWEEP and the Oscar for escort role (ablative armour). I will only research the KI-83 as a late IJAAF fighter cause it's the only one that can really make a difference.

As for bombers, the Helen will remain online for the whole war. We will only use the Peggy-T for IJAAF anti-shipping role.
The Frances will be the main IJNAF bomber. Till then only betties.

However we'll have time for this... [:)]

Now i'm finishing the first turn....it took a lot of time but i'm almost there... still need some tests but i think in one week i'll be ready!

...and waiting for the return of Mister X [:)]

You might want to think about the reationalizing idea.
While it usually is good, your war machine isn't intended to be slim and using only a few types. It is intended to win the war (or so...)
So when a plane is better but needs an engine you don't produce, you might want to think about producing it!

-Just one Port attack on turn one (no matter if conducted by CVs or
LBA - i don't like the mutli port attack rule used ny John III for
example)
-Reliable torps off, allied damage control on
-Para units must be whole before paradroppping (not fragments all over)
-Landing or paradrops only on base or dot-base hexes
-Must pay PPs to cross borders that start *friendly* (e.g., Manchuria
-> China, or India -> Burma). Note that you can cross borders that
start out enemy (e.g., Kwangtung units can move into Russia or Thay
Army to Burma).
-1 week russian activation if Japan decides to invade.
-Thai units can move into the Burma panhandle and Indochina.
- No 4Es on ground bombing mission allowed (this is a must for me
imho, cause the 4Es can really unbalance the late war allied advance
and the allies got plenty 2Es for that job)
- Only 50 engines for each AF level (level 0 AF can have 25 engines
anyway). This should slow down a lot the pace of the game, along with
the DBB's aviation support limitations
-4Es on naval attack only from PBY4s (or Navy 4Es anyway) but only from 15k feet
- What about night bombing? I saw someone proposed only during night
with at least 50% moonlight....
- No strat bombing before 1943 .
-No Allied Air or naval units in Russia are allowed, even if Russia is
activated.
- No Mersing Gambit on turn 1
- SWEEP and CAP altitudes.... this is a very important rule imho cause
i hate the stratosphere sweep.... i've used the 2nd mnvr best altitude
in my last match and it seemed to work fine.... i've also seen that
someone else used a fix altitude: 20k for 1942. 25k for 1943, 30k for
1944 and no limits for 1945... what do you think?

- no 1 ship TF


these are the HRs i suggested....what do you think?

House Rules.  Comment:  I am interested in why the 4Es cannot bomb ground units.  They did it frequently in the war.  I recall the PzLehr being practically destroyed in Normandy by B-17 carpet bombing.  We ground attack all the time with 4E, but it is usually in jungle or rough/jungle and does not seem overly productive.  Catch them in the open and YES!, that unit is going to be smacked hard (and should).  But, something in your experience makes this a particularly troublesome rule.  What was it?
 
We limit 4e naval attacks to no lower than 8K.  It works well.  IRL, the B-17, B-24 attacked naval units quite a bit, but with very limited success.
 
Our rule for preventing the stratosphere dive is to limit CAP (including LRCAP) and Sweep to no higher than 5K over the plane's best fighter band.  It works and is easy to remember.  Escorts may be no higher than 3K above the highest bomber group planning to enter the hex (no fudging by sending a 3 bomber HQ unit in at 20K and then all the rest at 10K).  It has worked very well.
 
I don't have a problem with the IJ making more than one port attack on turn 1 as they sure could have done PH and Manila Bay had they chosen that course.  They did strike Davao along with PH.  However, I insist (really, insist!) that they get only one crack at PH.  The game gives them a free pass to get there and launch the attack; therefore I think it only fair that they should also be saddled with the historical decision to retire after that strike.  Sure, they can come back. They have to go to a 4 level port first in our rule.  But, it is a little harsh to saddle the Japs with only one port attack on turn 1. 
 
Otherwise, those rules look good.
 
Has Mr X been publically identified yet?  Surely you aren't dragging Nemo out of retirement are you, you cunning little imp?

Consider G3M3 Nell as the range is excellent. Makes a great dual search/attack plane in a limited role.