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Many players will excercise reasonable retraint in handling the Manchurian garrison. There's just a "smell test," even in a game with no HR.

One-Eyed-Jacks as victimized by Nemo with a Fortress Palembang, as I'm sure nearly everybody recalls. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Hey, Moose, a whole two days into your game, how would you describe the excitement level in PBEM vs. AI? I doubt you've ever posted about a thousand-word AAR in an AI game. (This isn't a shot at AI games - I realize many players prefer them for one reason or another. But they are very different.) What's your take?

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Many players will excercise reasonable retraint in handling the Manchurian garrison. There's just a "smell test," even in a game with no HR.

I just don't see this as an issue in a no-holds barred game, CR.

By design, this should be implemented by the IJ player. To *not* do so is to abrogate responsibility for an enormously important asset. Bullwinkle has indicated that he's going to do a Fortress Palembang of sorts-in the spirit of his very clearly expressed 'anything goes' wishes for the game.

By all means then, One Eyed Jacks should put the petal to the metal and dump whatever he can from Manchuko into China and blow that theatre out as soon as possible.

Alot of players, even in a no-hold's-barred game, will excercise restraint. Many just seem to come equipped with a "speed arrester" that keeps the game in check. Of course, some player's don't. Some will march an army across the Owen Stanley Mountains because there's nothing to prevent it. Others just won't do it. I don't know which camp One-Eyed falls into, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's a "what was reasonably possible" kind of guy.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
he's a "what was reasonably possible" kind of guy.

I think that argument goes out the window along with the HRs.

Bull explicitly wanted to game towards the engine. "I have said to Mike several times that no HRs means, to me, no HRs", said the Bull. This includes the Manchuko garrison and its implementation. That was even a discussion point for which a single HR was declined by both-re-read the first AAR post, CanoeRebel. It's pretty clear that the use of all Manchuko / Korean forces without PPs is reasonably possible and-in fact-tacitly agreed upon by both players.

I fully expect that this will be countered by the Bull at some time in the future, which will lead to sizeable land warfare in Burma in 1942-1943. But by then China will be a smoldering ruin for the Allies.

I missed all of that discussion, so you're probably right, Chickenboy.

The Moose has entered the room.

Strike up the band.[:)]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I'm going to be killed in China, I can already feel it.

Yes. Expect the entirety of the Manchurian infantry garrison in excess of 8,000 (some 3,000 AV IIRC) to be coming your way shortly. Unfortunately, they also get to bring all of their artillery and other support (base) forces and HQ units that are otherwise idle in Manchuria.

So, in addition to the usual suspects in China, I'd expect another 8-9 division equivalents, armor, artillery and base forces to support. Oh-since he doesn't have to keep planes there for exclusive training, you can expect to see these 'training' on your troops in China too.

A powerful 'give' to the Japanese effort in China by a no-PP 'buy' HR.

Good luck!

Builds character. [:)]

If he wants to bully me with that pile in China they aren't doing it somewhere else. I have a VP loss-ratio advantage in China too. But if he takes China he takes it. I just need to operate elsewhere to keep the VPs reasonable until 1943.

Or lose. I could lose too.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Oops-almost forgot:

There's some really nice IRs in Korea too. Added to the OOB avalanche coming into China, consider that another 1.5 Division equivalents with support. I don't have the OOB in front of me, but that's my recollection.

Maybe I could get him close to the 8000 A/V, then run a suicide sucker punch in there somewhere and take it to 7900. Instant Soviet sunshine! [8D]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Many players will excercise reasonable retraint in handling the Manchurian garrison. There's just a "smell test," even in a game with no HR.

One-Eyed-Jacks as victimized by Nemo with a Fortress Palembang, as I'm sure nearly everybody recalls. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I hope he tries it. I'm considering a Fortress P. right now. All I smell is perfume![:D]

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

The Moose has entered the room.

Strike up the band.[:)]

Thank you, suh, thank you. (bows, antlers to the deck.)

I have watched the Turn 2 combat replay and it was, ahem, interesting. Very possible an IJN CA reacted onto USS Oglala doing its work inside PH. Mines go boomski, sunk ship sound effect is heard. Later, far to the west, USS Houston, making a run for Miri and then Singers, alone, encounters strong IJN surface TF and scores five penetrating 8in hits on yet another IJN CL. If she went down that's three cruisers in two days.

I will post a description of the second day, probably tomorrow, for tonight it is a moose's birthday, and revelry is planned. (Also take-out Chinese.)

But Day 2 was not a rout.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, Moose, a whole two days into your game, how would you describe the excitement level in PBEM vs. AI? I doubt you've ever posted about a thousand-word AAR in an AI game. (This isn't a shot at AI games - I realize many players prefer them for one reason or another. But they are very different.) What's your take?

It's fun, so far. It's harder in that there are areas I need to pay attention to which the AI will let slide and that adds to the clicks. The first real Allied turn took parts of three days and probably fifteen hours. In an AI game I would have done a lot of that hosuekeeping over 3-4 turns.

Probably the hardest part is not being able to immediatley start the next turn. I have thr eplay for Day 2, but no save yet. By the time I get it I'll have to re-watch the replay and study Tracker, which I can't load until I get the play file. I don't know how you do it with week-long gaps between turns sometimes. I see why people play multiple games, but I couldn't keep the strategies straight.

Overall, so far, I'm glad I tried PBEM. I had wrung out what an AI could do, pretty much.

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Or lose. I could lose too.

Reminds me of the Mythbusters' motto: "Failure is always an option." [:D]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
If he wants to bully me with that pile in China they aren't doing it somewhere else.

Until he changes their HQ to an unrestricted one, they're land bound to South / Southeast Asia's land mass. Can't load 'em on boats and send 'em to New Guinea, so he may as well use 'em in China / Burma / Malaya, whatever. They'll be there until he sees fit to buy 'em out-but that will take a while.

You can run Intel Monkey as soon as the replay is done. It only reads the files created by the combat replay/combat resolution.

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I will post a description of the second day, probably tomorrow, for tonight it is a moose's birthday, and revelry is planned. (Also take-out Chinese.)

Did you even realize how appropos that sounds after the discussion of losing China? Are you ordering from "One-Eyed Jack's Cantonese Cuisine"?[:D]

Moose: Glad to see you are doing an AAR. As a long-time AI player who is considering making the jump to humanity, I will be watching this closely.

Good luck!

Cheers,
CC

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Probably the hardest part is not being able to immediatley start the next turn. I have thr eplay for Day 2, but no save yet. By the time I get it I'll have to re-watch the replay and study Tracker, which I can't load until I get the play file. I don't know how you do it with week-long gaps between turns sometimes. I see why people play multiple games, but I couldn't keep the strategies straight.

Overall, so far, I'm glad I tried PBEM. I had wrung out what an AI could do, pretty much.

The AAR helps a lot with delays. I often glance back to see what I was thinking, but more than that it focuses my thoughts in a way that keeps consistency from turn to turn. I just looked back after writing a report and realized I hadn't moved some newly arrived units to be shipped out, for example.

The waiting can be tough, though.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
If he wants to bully me with that pile in China they aren't doing it somewhere else.

Until he changes their HQ to an unrestricted one, they're land bound to South / Southeast Asia's land mass. Can't load 'em on boats and send 'em to New Guinea, so he may as well use 'em in China / Burma / Malaya, whatever. They'll be there until he sees fit to buy 'em out-but that will take a while.

Good point. I am currently considering several macro-China strategic platforms. A lot of numbers to consider. In a no-HR game I think things like MLRs have to be re-examined.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You can run Intel Monkey as soon as the replay is done. It only reads the files created by the combat replay/combat resolution.

Installing The Monkey is on my list of things to do. Right now I'm just using 5 Days in Tracker.