Matrix Games Forums

One thing that people don't seem to take into their roleplaying account is that in real life, before the advent of torpedoes and missiles and planes, larger military ships are overwhelming more powerful than smaller military ships, to the point where simply having twice the tonnage makes the larger ship invincible to any realistic number of smaller ships, which is far more powerful size relationship than distant worlds has. Even with the advent of torpedoes, it takes only a few escorts at a tiny fraction of the cost of the single larger ship to prevent the effect of torpedo ships. So to be honest, I have never understood the clamour for effective small combat ships when none have existed in real life. Even in the modern age, ships need to be above a certain size to be considered as effective ocean faring vessels.

I guess in the end, there is a disconnect between those who roleplay an imagined reality, then act offended that their imagined roleplaying isn't connected to the distant worldss reality of effective strategic or tactical concern.

I have not been playing for very long but I seem to find that smaller ship is useful and even potent with long range weapons and using speed an manoeuvrability as its primary defence. Sort of like torpedo boats and destroyers in WWII. Their smaller size and high mobility make them relatively hard to hit, especially at range.

As long as they can manage to stay away and pound the enemy they are a very good complement in battles since they do make larger ships go out of position trying to catch them.

You can build large ship that are as fast and nimble as small ships, but that kind of defeats the purpose because they are still relatively easy to hit since they are larger so you invested sources in a defence that is not as useful on a larger hull.

I did first try smaller ships with beam weapons, but I found these to be inadequate since closing in with larger ships is suicide and again defeats their purpose as harassment. Although by small I mean ships at sizes of 200-350 in size. Ships smaller than 200 just seem too weak unless very early in the game.

These smaller ships can often confuse the enemy and that will mean they manage to fire of less offensive rounds or do it in an ineffective way. They often can retreat and fight another day if overwhelmed, if they are designed as long range snipers. It might also be useful if you do concentrate on engine/thruster technology when using this strategy since they make them even better. If your overall technology is worse in this area they might not make you much use.

The way I see it you can use both brute force and nimble snipers, you have to keep your goal in mind when doing research.

My planed fleets include...

Escorts (fast, very nimble, torpedoes, PD guns, strong shields and weak armour) 250-350 size (main escort ship for all purposes)
Frigates (fast, nimble, missiles, beams, PD guns, strong shields and weak armour) 450-600 size (fast patrol ships against bigger threats)
Destroyers (medium speed/manoeuvrability, missiles, beams, PD weapons, strong shields and armour) 450-600 size (main fleet combat escort/combat vessel)
Cruisers (fast, medium manoeuvrability, missiles, beams, PD weapons, troops, special equipment, good shields and armour) 600+ size (stand alone ships made for raiding in enemy territory)
Battleships (slow speed/manoeuvrability, fighters, missiles, beams, PD weapons, troops, special equipment, strong shields and armour) 600+ size (Fleet tanks)
Carriers (medium speed, slow manoeuvrability, fighters, beams, PD weapons, special equipment, strong shields, weak armour) 600+ size (regular carrier type ship)

Have not progressed that far in the game yet being new and all...

Amazing thread necromancy. Shame nothing of what you wrote is related to anything else in the thread. Or accurate.

ORIGINAL: Plant

Amazing thread necromancy. Shame nothing of what you wrote is related to anything else in the thread. Or accurate.

Shill out!! [;)]

My comment was certainly about the original question in the thread and it was only on the second page in the Forum. I really don't see the problem since these questions seem to pop up now and then anyway in here.

By the way, what was inaccurate?

So...you admit that what you wrote, bears no relation to the thread in question?

Anyhow what was inacurate you ask?

1) Your mention of manouverability as defence is inaccurate. I was the one who suggested it to you that smaler is more evasive, with the caveat that we don't know how it works, or if it is true.

2) You say a large ship as fast and nimble as a smaller ship defeats the purpose because they are still relatively easy to hit since they are larger so you invested sources in a defence that is not as useful on a larger hull. Even if smaller is more survivable, larger ships are more survivable due to both size and efficiencies gained from size.

3) If ships size 200 seems too weak unless early in the game, then what's stopping size 300 ships seems too weak later in the game? Arbitrary ship size is arbitrary.

4) "These smaller ships can often confuse the enemy and that will mean they manage to fire of less offensive rounds or do it in an ineffective way." NO
"They often can retreat and fight another day if overwhelmed, if they are designed as long range snipers." So can larger ships. Smaller ships are more likely to be destroyed before they are overwhelmed as well.

And then the rest is a list of your personal roleplaying fleet, which also bears no relation to the thread, which is whether escorts are good for anything.

Yes... after playing a little more I do agree that smaller ships with fast engines and maneuverability are pretty weak against larger ships in general. Especially if you fight against someone with better technology.

Although I do seem to experience that the smaller ships get hit less often than my larger ships and bases. The in-game help also suggest that smaller size do help in negating being hit, but does not as you say explain directly how.

2) You say a large ship as fast and nimble as a smaller ship defeats the purpose because they are still relatively easy to hit since they are larger so you invested sources in a defence that is not as useful on a larger hull. Even if smaller is more survivable, larger ships are more survivable due to both size and efficiencies gained from size.

Well, that is not entirely true. If you have two or three ships instead of one bigger ship you can sometimes end up in a situation where that bigger ship is destroyed while only one of the smaller ones is destroyed. So that goes both ways.

4) "These smaller ships can often confuse the enemy and that will mean they manage to fire of less offensive rounds or do it in an ineffective way." NO

According to the in game help it appear that positioning do have an impact on the efficiency of the firepower of a ship. If it means it can shoot less shots or the take longer to fire or are more inaccurate it does not say. I do take it as if it in same way at least have an impact. If not it is rather silly in my opinion.

In my opinion the weapons in the game should perhaps have more stricter fire arcs as so positioning would become even more important.


Smaller ships are still very useful in offensive operations to engage multiple installations at the same time in many places. Sure, it will require more micromanagement, but if you are willing to do that it is possible.

I would also say that the term small obviously increase with the overall size of the ships in the game. I don't see many ships worth building below 300 in size in any event.

Explain to me how having 2 or 3 ships instead of one bigger ship can result in the larger ship being destroyed? As long all ships are designed in the same way except for size, and with the same amount of resources used.

Next bit is you trying to justify your saying of smaller ships confusing the enemy and some random babble. I'll respond to it with more effort than you put in. NO.

Then you say smaller ships are useful in engaging multiple installations at the same time. Just how many installations are you attacking that you need to build smaller ships so you can attack very single one? A well developed enemy system might have 5-10 bases. And an empire woul have a few of those. At any point in the game, you probably have enough economy to attack every single base with the maximum tehnology size ships. Not that it is possible, since the interface isn't good enough that you can attack every installations at the same time.

In any case, this is just a continuation of your necromantic off topic. Go make a new thread and make an appropriate title if you want to talk about whatever you are talking about.

In any case, this is just a continuation of your necromantic off topic. Go make a new thread and make an appropriate title if you want to talk about whatever you are talking about.

Sure...

ORIGINAL: Plant

In any case, this is just a continuation of your necromantic off topic. Go make a new thread and make an appropriate title if you want to talk about whatever you are talking about.

Actually, it's all been on-topic. I don't want to get involved in what seems to be a perpetual personality conflict (which really is off-topic, I'd think), but I started this thread, so I thought I should note that I appreciate the comments. Other than the nasty tone of some of them, I mean.

Bill