Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

+1 I have yet to hear a legitimate reason why not to have one.

Then it must be asked what is your definition of "legitimate"? Not liking or understanding the reasons does not make them not legitimate.

Especially as it's been answered over and over. It's not what they want to hear though, so it isn't "legitimate".

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

+1 I have yet to hear a legitimate reason why not to have one.

Then it must be asked what is your definition of "legitimate"? Not liking or understanding the reasons does not make them not legitimate.

Hey Flipper where have you been lately, good to hear from you, I am not sure vonRocko should have used the word legitimate, because that opens other doors I really do not want to get into with Matrix [nothing sinister believe me] I would rather have you [flipper] say I believe in demo's or they do nothing to help decision making about this game or that game or something, anything but that vague answer [:D]

Bo

Demos sells games and prevent guys that buy your games feel cheated after a buy this is something that you need have in your mind, is good sell a game but is better win a buyer not lose him because buy a game in blind mode and decide dont do this more times.

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

+1 I have yet to hear a legitimate reason why not to have one.

Then it must be asked what is your definition of "legitimate"? Not liking or understanding the reasons does not make them not legitimate.

Hey Flipper where have you been lately, good to hear from you, I am not sure vonRocko should have used the word legitimate, because that opens other doors I really do not want to get into with Matrix [nothing sinister believe me] I would rather have you [flipper] say I believe in demo's or they do nothing to help decision making about this game or that game or something, anything but that vague answer [:D]

Bo

Bo, the question is not as simple as do demo's help or hurt sales. Equally, if not more critical, is it worth the cost in resources to produce one. And if done, can it "really" show what a program is like.

I hope you are well.

I do not know the answer to that one, it probably is not in there which in a way shoots some holes in my demo theory. A new demo would not show the fixes for the game after being in a way play tested by the people purchasing the game. After a month or two any missed bugs or play enhancement that might benefit the game may very well never make it to a demo. I agree that is not a good thing.

I have been playing the demo The Blue and the Gray, the effort put into the game with statistics, references to all the units in the civil war for strengths, mobility, leaders is excellent but the game play leaves a lot to be desired at least for me. The demo shows me that.

I had a conversation [e-mail] some time ago about how hard is it to make a demo and also cost wise. No names but the game is Strategic Command which has a demo for every one of their series.
I was told [hopefully correctly] that making a demo was very easy, you take the first 8 or 9 moves of the actual game and put it on a demo for download and let the paying consumers judge if they like the game or not.

I think you were somewhat mislead. The comment about taking the first few turns and making a demo works for a very simple program. For anything more than simple you almost need to develop a demo in parallel with the game. That's the part that takes time and money for ZERO return on the investment you put in them. For simple games you can make the demo part of the game. For games that will sell gazillions - a shooter for example - even if their bad you can make enough sales to recover the cost of a demo. For complex games to a small market you might not even be able to cover demo costs much less the game costs. Wargames are a small market product, if you don't believe that check out how many true wargames wal-mart, ebgames or game stop sells as opposed to say shooters, action games, hidden object or sims games for PC if they even sell PC games anymore.

ORIGINAL: mullk

I do not know the answer to that one, it probably is not in there which in a way shoots some holes in my demo theory. A new demo would not show the fixes for the game after being in a way play tested by the people purchasing the game. After a month or two any missed bugs or play enhancement that might benefit the game may very well never make it to a demo. I agree that is not a good thing.

I have been playing the demo The Blue and the Gray, the effort put into the game with statistics, references to all the units in the civil war for strengths, mobility, leaders is excellent but the game play leaves a lot to be desired at least for me. The demo shows me that.

I had a conversation [e-mail] some time ago about how hard is it to make a demo and also cost wise. No names but the game is Strategic Command which has a demo for every one of their series.
I was told [hopefully correctly] that making a demo was very easy, you take the first 8 or 9 moves of the actual game and put it on a demo for download and let the paying consumers judge if they like the game or not.

I think you were somewhat mislead. The comment about taking the first few turns and making a demo works for a very simple program. For anything more than simple you almost need to develop a demo in parallel with the game. That's the part that takes time and money for ZERO return on the investment you put in them. For simple games you can make the demo part of the game. For games that will sell gazillions - a shooter for example - even if their bad you can make enough sales to recover the cost of a demo. For complex games to a small market you might not even be able to cover demo costs much less the game costs. Wargames are a small market product, if you don't believe that check out how many true wargames wal-mart, ebgames or game stop sells as opposed to say shooters, action games, hidden object or sims games for PC if they even sell PC games anymore.

There are no true wargames in any of those places you mentioned, there has not been a War in the East etc. in any game store in years and there will never be those kind of war games ever again in any brick and mortar store, they are a mecca for little kiddies, not for the wargamers on these forums.

About being misled hmmmm a possibility I guess but I sorta doubt it. Strategic Command put out a game WW11 Pacific Theater. If you play the games first 8 moves and then play the demo, it is the same 8 moves. Is it enough to make or break the game, who knows it is up to each individuals taste. So IMHO they took the first 8 moves and put it into demo, where is the cost in doing that?

When Matrix's World in Flames is released I would like the public to see a demo of Barbarossa or Guadalcanal which is only 5 moves, [10 months, 2 months a move] whether that will happen or not I do not know. Most Matrix posters know about the game or some aspects of the game, but there is a huge gaming world out there that knows nothing of one of the most complex, intriguing, computer war game ever made, thought not quite ready yet [IMO], a demo might help those gamers.

One of the smartest moves in gaming that I have ever seen is World of Tanks free download. It is played by millions all over the world and get this, it costs nothing to play it. Once you are hooked on it and you see yourself getting clobbered by bigger and better tanks, guess what, now you must buy that bigger and better tank, that part is not free and many players have spent a lot of money to play.

But if you do not spend anything you can still play free.

Bo