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RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:29 pm
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: castor troy



not sure what you are actually doing with your bombers but your flak losses just look horrible. Actually a more realistic number but for a "game" number it is looking really horrible to me for the date.

Total numbers lost, well, also looking realistic but in game terms quite heavy to me. 60% of your losses would be the max to accept for me at this stage of the game.


Most of that's from Singapore. He put a lot of flak there before I started bombing, then I got desperate because he also added engineers there and was fixing damage faster than I was delivering it, so I started running the bombers in at 5k instead of 10k. I stopped bombing there altogether some time back, with the exception of naval attack.

RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: castor troy



not sure what you are actually doing with your bombers but your flak losses just look horrible. Actually a more realistic number but for a "game" number it is looking really horrible to me for the date.

Total numbers lost, well, also looking realistic but in game terms quite heavy to me. 60% of your losses would be the max to accept for me at this stage of the game.


Most of that's from Singapore. He put a lot of flak there before I started bombing, then I got desperate because he also added engineers there and was fixing damage faster than I was delivering it, so I started running the bombers in at 5k instead of 10k. I stopped bombing there altogether some time back, with the exception of naval attack.


You got to be quite stubborn or careless if you lose a usual year's bomber production to flak of one base.

RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:31 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: castor troy



not sure what you are actually doing with your bombers but your flak losses just look horrible. Actually a more realistic number but for a "game" number it is looking really horrible to me for the date.

Total numbers lost, well, also looking realistic but in game terms quite heavy to me. 60% of your losses would be the max to accept for me at this stage of the game.


Most of that's from Singapore. He put a lot of flak there before I started bombing, then I got desperate because he also added engineers there and was fixing damage faster than I was delivering it, so I started running the bombers in at 5k instead of 10k. I stopped bombing there altogether some time back, with the exception of naval attack.


You got to be quite stubborn or careless if you lose a usual year's bomber production to flak of one base.

To be fair, it may be the most tactically important base for Japan to take in initial expansion.

RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:09 pm
by wyrmmy
Which he has yet to take, rerouting a lot of troops to Thailand to stop the incursion by SEA command. There was a window in Feb - March he could have taken it easily, now he lacks the troops to do so.

RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:45 pm
by castor troy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: geofflambert





Most of that's from Singapore. He put a lot of flak there before I started bombing, then I got desperate because he also added engineers there and was fixing damage faster than I was delivering it, so I started running the bombers in at 5k instead of 10k. I stopped bombing there altogether some time back, with the exception of naval attack.


You got to be quite stubborn or careless if you lose a usual year's bomber production to flak of one base.

To be fair, it may be the most tactically important base for Japan to take in initial expansion.


and that makes losing several hundred bombers worth it? Serious? Different people, different oppinions. I found and still find losing nearly 1000 bombers in one year war horrible, let alone losing most of them
over Singapore. That's clearly an example when I say the commander did something seriously wrong. There's nothing justifying the loss of so many bombers early on, that's just crazy to me.

My ongoing PBEM sees KB attacking Manila, is near Malaya three days later, the IJ lands at Mersing, Malay is cut in two, Northern pocket with 25000 men falls on the first attack for literally no loss, shock attack
into Singapore takes the base on first attempt. Total losses: 1 ship, 2 dozen aircraft, 50 squads of inf and support and some guns, all done in the first week of January with not much the Allied can do about as
there is nothing to be made out of thin air and stuff doesn't magically teleport around other than the IJN's magic task forces of turn one. Now this may be an ideal example but the OP's example must be the worst
then because I have never heard about losing hundreds and hundreds of bombers to flak over Singapore which makes asking about the IJ economy the wrong question, first to ask would be to avoid losses like this,
because with losses like this no economy can correspond.

How can one keep attacking at the wrong altitude after losing a couple of dozen bombers to flak just to keep on attacking the same way again and again to probably lose more than 1000 bombers doing so because
if there are nearly 1000 flak losses, then there are hundreds more that resulted in ops losses. Can only repeat me, horrible.

RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:13 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: castor troy




You got to be quite stubborn or careless if you lose a usual year's bomber production to flak of one base.

To be fair, it may be the most tactically important base for Japan to take in initial expansion.


and that makes losing several hundred bombers worth it? Serious? Different people, different oppinions. I found and still find losing nearly 1000 bombers in one year war horrible, let alone losing most of them
over Singapore. That's clearly an example when I say the commander did something seriously wrong. There's nothing justifying the loss of so many bombers early on, that's just crazy to me.

My ongoing PBEM sees KB attacking Manila, is near Malaya three days later, the IJ lands at Mersing, Malay is cut in two, Northern pocket with 25000 men falls on the first attack for literally no loss, shock attack
into Singapore takes the base on first attempt. Total losses: 1 ship, 2 dozen aircraft, 50 squads of inf and support and some guns, all done in the first week of January with not much the Allied can do about as
there is nothing to be made out of thin air and stuff doesn't magically teleport around other than the IJN's magic task forces of turn one. Now this may be an ideal example but the OP's example must be the worst
then because I have never heard about losing hundreds and hundreds of bombers to flak over Singapore which makes asking about the IJ economy the wrong question, first to ask would be to avoid losses like this,
because with losses like this no economy can correspond.

How can one keep attacking at the wrong altitude after losing a couple of dozen bombers to flak just to keep on attacking the same way again and again to probably lose more than 1000 bombers doing so because
if there are nearly 1000 flak losses, then there are hundreds more that resulted in ops losses. Can only repeat me, horrible.
He's a new guy - he wasn't saying it was a great series of maneuver, just explaining what happened. I think he understands more now! [8D]

RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:14 pm
by Lokasenna
I think attacking Singers from lower than 15k is a mistake every newly-minted Japanese player has to make at least once.

Definitely not worth several hundred bombers (I'd have to look back at how much it cost me in this past game, but I'd say probably less than 50), I was just expressing that it's understandable why our Gorn would set his bombers more aggressively in an attempt to "break" Singers.

RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:41 pm
by geofflambert
Gorns are never wrong.

RE: Japanese economy (wyrmm look if you wish)

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:32 am
by offenseman
ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Gorns are never wrong.

You have a great attitude regarding the game in general. [&o]