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RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:38 am
by Crossroads
Thanks, something to consider for sure!
While I see what you are saying in all other points, what about number 3 though. Do you have CS Middle East, with the new Air Model that comes with it?
Judging how helo gunships operate I'd wage a similar model would work quite nicely on WW II. Stukas, Thunderbolts, what have you. Gunships are quite the nice asset should you not have to worry about opposition AA assets, in which case you really have to think about where to order them and where not.
Just curious to hear your opinion on this.
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:32 am
by MrRoadrunner
I agree with Big Ivan on number three.
Keep the abstract air rules that originally came with the game. I hate the on map aircraft. And, if it would be Stukas and Thunderbolts I would have more reason to be disgusted. I do not think it is "realism" in any way or form.
Remember six minute turns? Please?
RR
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:00 pm
by Crossroads
What's been discussed for CS Vietnam are Spotter aircraft and helos only. I was just curious if Ivan's wish was related to having already played with the new air model, or just about the old on-map aircraft.
The old model is a goner, so from that point of view you can pretty much consider #3 as such a done deal.
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:50 am
by Big Ivan
Hi Crossroads and thanks RR,
That's good to hear that the old air model is gone.
I have tinkered with CSME's air model a bit in one scenario. It appears its functional for helicopter aircraft but will admit that I haven't got to deep into it yet.
Fixed wing aircraft flying at for sake of argument 200-300 miles/hour, is totally different, the model in game scale terms just doesn't work for me in EF/WF/RS.
Airplanes should be constantly moving laterally across the board at either low or high altitude, diving or climbing and doing loops or barrel rolls.
Not sitting in one hex as you complete the balance of a turn or during your opponents turn. That seems totally unrealistic to me.
I do like how the airstrikes are handled with the quick on-attack-quick off routine. Keep that as its most realistic for this game engine and scale.
I think the problem is that the games EF/WF/RS and CSME for that matter are turn based and not real time action like "Close Combat" series (hope its CC Series?).
IMO for turn based games you cannot accurately portray what fixed wing aircraft really do because there is a freeze phase for lack of a better term.
By that I mean you are finishing your turn and waiting for your opponent to complete his and the planes are not moving! That's odd, for me they need to move constantly all the time across the whole turn.
Not sure if that could be ever coded in this series. Probably not but its OK to dream I guess!
Thanks and have a great day gents!
Big Ivan
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:23 am
by MrRoadrunner
ORIGINAL: Big Ivan
Hi Crossroads and thanks RR,
That's good to hear that the old air model is gone.
I have tinkered with CSME's air model a bit in one scenario. It appears its functional for helicopter aircraft but will admit that I haven't got to deep into it yet.
Fixed wing aircraft flying at for sake of argument 200-300 miles/hour, is totally different, the model in game scale terms just doesn't work for me in EF/WF/RS.
Airplanes should be constantly moving laterally across the board at either low or high altitude, diving or climbing and doing loops or barrel rolls.
Not sitting in one hex as you complete the balance of a turn or during your opponents turn. That seems totally unrealistic to me.
I do like how the airstrikes are handled with the quick on-attack-quick off routine. Keep that as its most realistic for this game engine and scale.
I think the problem is that the games EF/WF/RS and CSME for that matter are turn based and not real time action like "Close Combat" series (hope its CC Series?).
IMO for turn based games you cannot accurately portray what fixed wing aircraft really do because there is a freeze phase for lack of a better term.
By that I mean you are finishing your turn and waiting for your opponent to complete his and the planes are not moving! That's odd, for me they need to move constantly all the time across the whole turn.
Not sure if that could be ever coded in this series. Probably not but its OK to dream I guess!
Thanks and have a great day gents!
Big Ivan
Probably why the original air rules were to abstract planes? And, probably why it was thought of as a ground based game.
When the team slapped on the air and navy rules it was like trying to put lipstick on a pig. It sure does not look right nor did it make the pig pretty.
Having planes flit around to fit the time and space scale would be distractedly annoying at best?
Best to leave it abstract.
For Vietnam, spotters and helos sound about right. They were made to loiter?
Though in the hands of a player if the plane does not move for turn after turn, what keeps it "afloat"?
RR
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:14 am
by Crossroads
Good arguments gentlemen. Air strikes with off-map aircraft zooming in and out as they currently are implemented go a long way to represent the fixed wing ground attack air craft.
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:03 am
by Big Ivan
RR, Like the lipstick on a pig anology, I'll have to remember that one, that's good-Thanks!
Crossroads
Here is an idea that just popped up in my head about loitering, not sure if it will work but here goes.
Fixed winged aircraft type units cannot loiter! You either move them preferably a minimum number of hexes each turn. (Minimum would probably be some number more than 12 or 24)
Or,
If they haven't moved they are automatically exited at the start of your next turn by the game engine itself. Owner has no control assumed to have flown off to another part of the front never to return.
Helicopters type units can hang around by their very nature so they are exempted from this rule.
Just trying to think of ways to make fixed winged aircraft work better within the scale of the game.
Maybe there are not any and its a pipe dream, don't know.
Thanks
Big Ivan
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:17 pm
by Jason Petho
Great idea, Big Ivan!
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:00 pm
by Jafele
Some kind of sign to know when an unit is assaulting. This would be a more reliable source than memory.
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:15 pm
by Jason Petho
ORIGINAL: Crossroads
What's been discussed for CS Vietnam are Spotter aircraft and helos only. I was just curious if Ivan's wish was related to having already played with the new air model, or just about the old on-map aircraft.
This is slightly inaccurate.
There will be other on map aircraft for Vietnam, mainly the Puff/Spooky types.
Other airstrikes will operate as they usually do and how they do in CSME.
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:23 pm
by K K Rossokolski
Loitering aircraft.
One attack aircraft type first seen in Vietnam was/is the side-firing gunship, modifications of the venerable C-47 Dakota, the later C-119 Flying Boxcar, and the C-130 Hercules, capable of illuminating targets and engaging with a variety of weapons from the 7.62 minigun to 105mm howitzers. These aircraft were capable of sustained fire and target illumination, with significant loiter time.
We plan these to be part of the Vietnam OOB.
As Petri says above, the "dash and drop" air attack, a feature of CS since EF first appeared, works for us. A planned addition will be the multi-aircraft B-52 "ArcLight" strike.
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:50 am
by Crossroads
Oh yes, I was thinking about On-Map jets being not an option. Ah, C-47 Spooky was one of the first models I ever built. Rows of miniguns sure got the attention of the young kid I was:
(not mine, but a similar kit)
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:56 am
by Big Ivan
ORIGINAL: Jason Petho
ORIGINAL: Crossroads
What's been discussed for CS Vietnam are Spotter aircraft and helos only. I was just curious if Ivan's wish was related to having already played with the new air model, or just about the old on-map aircraft.
This is slightly inaccurate.
There will be other on map aircraft for Vietnam, mainly the Puff/Spooky types.
Other airstrikes will operate as they usually do and how they do in CSME.
Darn it! Forgot about Puff and Spooky! Can't be a Vietnam game without them. Not sure how those could be handled abstractly like air attacks. They can put a lot of devastation in one or two hexes.
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:53 pm
by Deepstuff3725
SAre we going to be able to call in for an air strike in the Vietnam game, and when it occurs see an F-4 Phantom streak across the screen and drop napalm? If so, to make it realistic I'd like for it to be loud as flies through. Perhaps get some audio of a real Phantom flying overhead at high speed? A friend of mine told me his dad served in Vietnam, and he said the F4's were "scary".
And how about if doing a napalm strike, have there be a possibility of missing the targeted hex? And with a napalm strike, instead of lighting up just one hex, maybe there could be a couple hexes in a row go up in flames? Units that were there would take major hits, if one was able to flee it would be severely damaged?
In my opinion, I'd like to see any air strikes handled the way they are now where they zoom in and off the board. At first I wanted air units to move around, but I've grown to like how the air strikes are handled in CS. I like how the computer handles the air attack, and it is somewhat out of your control as you are focused on the ground war and commanding ground forces.
Having some units able to loiter, like helicopters, sounds great, too. Being able to control and move helicopters around makes sense.
And how about a scenario for Vietnam similar to the helicopter beach assault in the movie Apocalypse Now? Gunships and Hughes MDs flying in with rockets and machine guns..... I would crank of the Flight of the Valkries playing it.
Here is a link to set the mood.......
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30QzJKCUekQ
Jeff
RE: 2.01 Wishlist Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:48 pm
by Jafele
Possibility to change units names. This is a good option to know in the info box which platoon is selected, with no need to use F2.
Example: There are 4 T-34 M41 units, I could rename them in this way to distinguish different platoons: T-34 M41 (1); T-34 M41(2)...
On another hand, some units (ie.sniper teams) have no unique name in F2 when they are part of the same organization.
RE: 2.* Wishlist
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:34 pm
by Zap
ORIGINAL: XLVIII Pz. Korp
Well..... while were wishing, once again, separate bases for the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS so I can see something like this without resorting to Photoshop. [:D]
Whatever happened to the beautiful bases? I was hoping to see them implemented in the future games. Why not let him have a go at the bases for CSME
RE: 2.* Wishlist
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:15 am
by Crossroads
ORIGINAL: Zap
Whatever happened to the beautiful bases? I was hoping to see them implemented in the future games. Why not let him have a go at the bases for CSME
Nothing's stopping him or anyone having a go with them, the placeholders for 12 individual bases are there [:)]
Actually, there's a base mod there already,
HERE.
RE: 2.* Wishlist
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:59 am
by Big Ivan
Hi Jason
Found another graphic glitch that needs fixing for the future CS update.
West Front, November 1942 American motorcycles (6SP) appear in editor and scenario play as horses and sound is horses also.
Thanks
John
RE: 2.* Wishlist
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:36 pm
by Jason Petho
Thank you, John!
Jason Petho
RE: 2.* Wishlist
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:38 am
by fritzfarlig
maybe put the org. info like this