Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: majordefeat
Here's a thought!!! Maybe instead of reviewing your customer feedback you should review what you have yourself committed to as part of your advertising of this product:

These issues will be our #1 priority and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them. We're extremely confident in the solitaire/hotseat play and the NetPlay issues are not structural but rather related to rule/action/option cases during gameplay. We do not expect all customers to encounter these issues. We will address the known issues ASAP and any others as they come up. We're committed to prompt post-release support for WIF now and for years into the future.

That would seem to have been what - 7 months ago? To now post that you know the product is not playable in multiplayer format, and yet you continue to market it as such, well I think that is really quite unethical.

That would have been back in November, 4.5 months ago. I've posted two more updates about the state of NetPlay since, but in other threads. You correctly point out that the original post/thread should be updated.

I'll post a new thread regarding the state of the game this week. Steve's regular updates on the state of WIF have been the intended way of keeping you all informed. He has been posting these regularly in another pinned thread.

The original post you quoted accurately reflected my understanding at that time. Clearly, I was wrong regarding how long it would take to get NetPlay to a good state that worked for all customers and we were also overconfident on the state of solitaire play. By we, I mean me and Steve as we ultimately made the decision on release timing.

Regards,

- Erik

Hi Dabrion,

ORIGINAL: Dabrion
It is a fraud! They know it.. and they are getting away with it, so they have no inventive to change anything..
This kind of statement by Erik just shows how out of sync he must be with this project.

Personal suggestion: cash out the people and commit ritual suicide to preserve the last bit of honor you might possees..

This post is across the line in terms of our forum rules. This is not fraud and suggesting that someone commit suicide because you are unhappy with their game is reprehensible. Consider this a warning to re-read the forum rules.

Regards,

- Erik

Hi WarHunter,

I read everything you posted and I completely understand your point of view. The blame belongs on my shoulders and I'm sorry we have fallen so far short of your expectations. The reason for the review this week and the post I made earlier is to let you know that we are also disappointed that this much time has passed without the NetPlay issues being resolved. We are doing our best to chart a course together with Steve to get to that critical mass point where the vast majority of players will be able to play without issues, either solitaire or NetPlay.

ORIGINAL: WarHunter
Are these 2 elements are still being worked on? You tell me. I'm all ears/eyes.

Supply and production planning are in our top three priorities along with NetPlay and they've already received a lot of work since release. We are giving these as much attention as possible as we realize their importance to the game.

Regards,

- Erik

You advertised a computer version of World in Flames. Like in a finished product. Payment was done, and I received this wreck of a software. Now you promise you get it done eventually.. like some time this millenium.. or tomorrow.. noone knows. Yet there is not date, no timeline, not catalogue of actions you want to take. Only vague, inconsequential glibberish..

My impressions is that it is fraud (deception intended to result in financial gain).


The other part was only a suggestion. It is an accepted way to preserve once families' or companies' honor in eastern asian cultures. I can see why you are not interested, though.

Hi Dabrion,

Your impression is incorrect. There was never any intent to deceive or to commit fraud. We have however fallen short of our own and your expectations and we are working diligently to earn back your trust and that of the rest of the WIF community.

I accept the feedback that my updates and Steve's regular updates on this forum have not been enough to keep the community informed. We'll do better on that, starting later this week.

Regarding you following up your first insult with another one, that unfortunately says a lot more about you than it does about me. Consider this your second warning, any other personal attacks or insults will result in a forum ban. We don't ban for criticism or negative feedback, but we do ban for violations of the forum rules.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Hi WarHunter,
I read everything you posted and I completely understand your point of view. The blame belongs on my shoulders and I'm sorry we have fallen so far short of your expectations. The reason for the review this week and the post I made earlier is to let you know that we are also disappointed that this much time has passed without the NetPlay issues being resolved. We are doing our best to chart a course together with Steve to get to that critical mass point where the vast majority of players will be able to play without issues, either solitaire or NetPlay.

ORIGINAL: WarHunter
Are these 2 elements are still being worked on? You tell me. I'm all ears/eyes.

Supply and production planning are in our top three priorities along with NetPlay and they've already received a lot of work since release. We are giving these as much attention as possible as we realize their importance to the game.
Regards,
- Erik

Erik,

Thanks for the prompt reply. It takes a man to apologize in public to another man. Thank you.

Realize this is a passing moment in time. Any drama will fade leaving us/you with the cold hard facts to deal with. Whatever plans you and Steve come up with, has to include us, the player base. Be we beta tester or not.

We are a varied and dedicated bunch of men from around the world with this game as a common denominator. We want a new chapter of continued support that reflects the demands of a released game. It just doesn't have that feel to it yet.

Knock out those 3 priorities and regain some measure of trust. Your reward is a job well done reflected in the game you have helped create.

I want to recommend the game, just not right now to my friends.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Dabrion,

Your impression is incorrect. There was never any intent to deceive or to commit fraud. We have however fallen short of our own and your expectations and we are working diligently to earn back your trust and that of the rest of the WIF community.

I accept the feedback that my updates and Steve's regular updates on this forum have not been enough to keep the community informed. We'll do better on that, starting later this week.

Regarding you following up your first insult with another one, that unfortunately says a lot more about you than it does about me. Consider this your second warning, any other personal attacks or insults will result in a forum ban. We don't ban for criticism or negative feedback, but we do ban for violations of the forum rules.

Regards,

- Erik

You have a history of announcing things and not seeing them, through. Banning me could be the first step to actually deliver a promise.. until "later this week"..

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Solitaire is solid for most players, but there are corner cases in terms of play style and strategy that have uncovered new bugs since release and there have certainly been some more common critical issues in past builds.

Corner cases?? Are you serious with this?

I suppose that the supply bugs only affect those Axis players whose play style and strategy involve never moving their units or attacking. So that makes the supply bugs a corner case for the small percentage of us that actually try to attack the other side in a war game.

I suppose the phantom convoy bug only affects those players who use submarine warfare in a world war two game. Crazy, I know...

I suppose the peacekeeper bug only affects the rare game where a minor country is allied to a neutral major power. Like if Germany refuses the Russian demands on Bessarabia or Finland.

I guess the bug that doesn't require a player to take the mandatory losses only affects players that never use combat engineers, never suffer a loss in a blitz attack, and never use winterized units. Since this is a world war two game, it's probably just a small percentage of players trying to take advantage of those new fangled armor units.

I guess the bug that prevents lend lease build points from releasing their targets only affects players that want to take advantage of the massive US economy.

I guess the bug that stops the Japanese build point from reaching the US player only affects... oh wait, since that bug only affects some players for some unknown reason, it's not a priority. Even though we paid the same $100 as everyone else.

Your definition of a "corner case" appears to be "playing the game"

Dabrion is over the line when he suggests ritual suicide, but I'm not sure he isn't right when he alleges fraud. You released a game in an unplayable state without disclosing the extent of the problems (only net play was supposed to no be working yet, and there was a promise to make that a top priority. Neither of those things were accurate). If you released the game without realizing the state it was in, then it was willful ignorance.

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Solitaire is solid for most players, but there are corner cases in terms of play style and strategy that have uncovered new bugs since release and there have certainly been some more common critical issues in past builds.

Corner cases?? Are you serious with this?

Please also see the bold part above. This is not any kind of attempt to smoke screen. There have been common critical issues and there are some critical issues that are still common, but we've resolved hundreds of issues since release and a great majority were corner cases. I'm trying to represent the reality we see on the development side in the sense that the majority of blocking issues have been related to very specific combinations of actions and options. This does not mean there haven't also been issues that were common to many players.

You released a game in an unplayable state without disclosing the extent of the problems (only net play was supposed to no be working yet, and there was a promise to make that a top priority. Neither of those things were accurate). If you released the game without realizing the state it was in, then it was willful ignorance.

I can certainly be accused of ignorance, that's fair. I was clearly wrong about the state of the game, but I think the frustration we all feel that we are this far past release and all issues are not yet resolved is also causing some to overlook the progress we have made. We're having a full review this week specifically because we're not happy either and we'll post back here by the end of the week to let you all know how we plan to get WIF to where it should be.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: WarHunter
Realize this is a passing moment in time. Any drama will fade leaving us/you with the cold hard facts to deal with. Whatever plans you and Steve come up with, has to include us, the player base. Be we beta tester or not.

We are a varied and dedicated bunch of men from around the world with this game as a common denominator. We want a new chapter of continued support that reflects the demands of a released game. It just doesn't have that feel to it yet.

Knock out those 3 priorities and regain some measure of trust. Your reward is a job well done reflected in the game you have helped create.

I want to recommend the game, just not right now to my friends.

Thank you, I agree with you in all respects.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Dabrion
You have a history of announcing things and not seeing them, through. Banning me could be the first step to actually deliver a promise.. until "later this week"..

That's the one thing I'd rather not follow through on. Feel free to vent at me, but please keep personal attacks out of it.

Regards,

- Erik

As an addendum to Zaratacla, the testers also pointed out that my initial post was probably easier to read as suggesting we were only dealing with corner cases rather than the other way. That was not my intention, so let me reiterate that we're not blind to the issues you mentioned, nor do we think that only corner cases remain to be resolved. We're doing a full review this week that will result in a post to the community at the end of this week regarding the state of the game and our plan going forward.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

As an addendum to Zaratacla, the testers also pointed out that my initial post was probably easier to read as suggesting we were only dealing with corner cases rather than the other way. That was not my intention, so let me reiterate that we're not blind to the issues you mentioned, nor do we think that only corner cases remain to be resolved. We're doing a full review this week that will result in a post to the community at the end of this week regarding the state of the game and our plan going forward.

Regards,

- Erik

warspite1

Many thanks Erik.

Erik - I know you've been around the block, so you may not need to hear this - but hang in there. I dismissed this game 5 years ago and said it would never happen. I was wrong. There are problems, but I am just amazed at how much has actually been accomplished. I am enjoying it. Lots of us are. We're silent most of the time, but we're here. I have no faith that NetPlay will really work ... but I was wrong before. Enjoying it solo and hotseat.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: majordefeat
Here's a thought!!! Maybe instead of reviewing your customer feedback you should review what you have yourself committed to as part of your advertising of this product:

These issues will be our #1 priority and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them. We're extremely confident in the solitaire/hotseat play and the NetPlay issues are not structural but rather related to rule/action/option cases during gameplay. We do not expect all customers to encounter these issues. We will address the known issues ASAP and any others as they come up. We're committed to prompt post-release support for WIF now and for years into the future.

That would seem to have been what - 7 months ago? To now post that you know the product is not playable in multiplayer format, and yet you continue to market it as such, well I think that is really quite unethical.

That would have been back in November, 4.5 months ago. I've posted two more updates about the state of NetPlay since, but in other threads. You correctly point out that the original post/thread should be updated.

I'll post a new thread regarding the state of the game this week. Steve's regular updates on the state of WIF have been the intended way of keeping you all informed. He has been posting these regularly in another pinned thread.

The original post you quoted accurately reflected my understanding at that time. Clearly, I was wrong regarding how long it would take to get NetPlay to a good state that worked for all customers and we were also overconfident on the state of solitaire play. By we, I mean me and Steve as we ultimately made the decision on release timing.

Regards,

- Erik

Talk is cheap.
Update your product webpage.
Just provide a second link directly under the first - Important update re multiplayer'. Your post above essentially covers the terrain.
You originally advertised your intentions regarding updates, not some bloke called Steve.
Your post is linked to as part of advertising, not all the updates issued since by Steve.

A person who purchases the product on a distant post regarding non-structural issues/issues that not all customers would encounter, a commitment to have these issues resolved in one week, will play the single player and think this game is pretty cool. They may encourage a friend to purchase the product. They will go to play multiplayer and realise that its functionality has been overstated and its issues downplayed.

So dishonest not to update your page straight away once these issues are known. Not in a week.

I have no problem as I purchased this game knowing that it is a work in progress and was never done when bought. Mainly wanted to support the effort to keep it going. Keep up the great work and thanks.

+1

And have to ask, where about in the Buckeye State? I'm in Columbus.

These are the sort of bland, by-the-numbers, obligatory responses that sometimes worked ten years ago, or more, as an efficient way for companies to get ahead of criticism and re-frame conversation away from a nerdrage death spiral. Now (from the outside looking in) the responses are amusingly tone deaf, as customers are much more savvy to insincere attempts at crisis management. Invoking Dabrion's silly jibe as an opportunity to play the victim was a clumsy reach and further demonstrates a lack of genuine regard.

In Erik's defense, Matrix ignored MWiF during the entirety of its 10 year development and they did so obviously and transparently -- by what right should they now be held to a higher standard?

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

These are the sort of bland, by-the-numbers, obligatory responses that sometimes worked ten years ago, or more, as an efficient way for companies to get ahead of criticism and re-frame conversation away from a nerdrage death spiral. Now (from the outside looking in) the responses are amusingly tone deaf, as customers are much more savvy to insincere attempts at crisis management. Invoking Dabrion's silly jibe as an opportunity to play the victim was a clumsy reach and further demonstrates a lack of genuine regard.

In Erik's defense, Matrix ignored MWiF during the entirety of its 10 year development and they did so obviously and transparently -- by what right should they now be held to a higher standard?

warspite1

"nerdrage (Sic) death spiral" [:)] I love it when you talk dirty Crusss.

Since I bought this only for the maps, I can honestly says I'm happy as a lark. They're beautiful! And I got a game to play as well. It doesn't work properly but since I don't care about it, I for one, can wait an eternity till it does.

On a sad note, my partner and I have, for the time, given up on this game. And I have uninstalled it

I guess the other thing I got from this, was incite to how such a complicated game comes together. I'd have to pay more than $200 for such a class. This will help me in my own project.