Matrix Games Forums

+1000

Get over it - pissing off the writers isn't going to make anything better!

Have a look at Larry's last post on the tread were's larry.

"I'm still playing mostly testing the newest beta versions and therefore
posting in the private development forum ....."

A couple of months ago I was also testing FITE2 with the new 3.6 with larry and found a couple of bugs. I have had to stop because MY BOSS does not pay me to play TOAW and for the past 2 months I have been working 6 1/2 days per week.

Now I know things that you do not but I cannot post here. I cannot tell you when 3.6 will be released nor can i tell you when TOAW 4 will be released but they are being worked upon.

YES an update by the people working on them would be nice. But there maybe reasons why they cannot post an update.

ORIGINAL: fogger
...
A couple of months ago I was also testing FITE2 with the new 3.6 with larry and found a couple of bugs. I have had to stop because MY BOSS does not pay me to play TOAW and for the past 2 months I have been working 6 1/2 days per week.
...

So, people are all worked up about patch 3.5 and apparently there's already 3.6 being tested... Has 3.5 missed customers entirely and was just for the selected few?

Anyway, the point being made by some people is that, irrespective of wargames being a niche market, they are still a business for Matrix. People are right that Matrix really does not have to provide a scooby of information about what they are doing. They are a privately owned company, hence they have no need to answer their customer base, only their owners.

But you have got to wonder, is this the best policy for establishing relationships with your customer base?

If the projected customer base for TOAW is so insignificant that is barely worthwhile an update progress (like the Combined Arms customer base), then its safe to said there is little point in continuing the development. Because, lets face it. The vast majority of TOAW 4 buyers will be TOAW 3 owners and if the little base of players that exists is alienated, then you just lost a good chunk of potential buyers for the game you are (?) developing.

Well, it looks to me from everything that I've read so far that TOAW is still being worked on, but at a very, very low level of priority (and slowly).

I can't really fault anyone for posting AAR's using versions that only a few have access to, since it looks like it's the only source of limited information (and hope) that we have, and most likely, it's going to stay that way.

I'll check in every now and then to see what's going on, but I suspect not much is going to happen, unless one day Matrix speaks up with a big announcement. That's going to happen on their timetable, and no one else's.

ORIGINAL: jmlima

ORIGINAL: fogger
...
A couple of months ago I was also testing FITE2 with the new 3.6 with larry and found a couple of bugs. I have had to stop because MY BOSS does not pay me to play TOAW and for the past 2 months I have been working 6 1/2 days per week.
...

So, people are all worked up about patch 3.5 and apparently there's already 3.6 being tested... Has 3.5 missed customers entirely and was just for the selected few?

Anyway, the point being made by some people is that, irrespective of wargames being a niche market, they are still a business for Matrix. People are right that Matrix really does not have to provide a scooby of information about what they are doing. They are a privately owned company, hence they have no need to answer their customer base, only their owners.

But you have got to wonder, is this the best policy for establishing relationships with your customer base?

If the projected customer base for TOAW is so insignificant that is barely worthwhile an update progress (like the Combined Arms customer base), then its safe to said there is little point in continuing the development. Because, lets face it. The vast majority of TOAW 4 buyers will be TOAW 3 owners and if the little base of players that exists is alienated, then you just lost a good chunk of potential buyers for the game you are (?) developing.

Judging by other games being upgraded by different developers I think it is safe to say it is entirely within the dev's realm to do a dev's diary such as the one done for John Tiller's Campaign Series. Whether or not Ralph wants to would appear to be up to him. Perhaps he simply does not have the time. Maybe he could ask one of the testers to do this? I don't know. What I do know from reading this forum is that one or more projects are moving forward and will eventually reach completion.

ORIGINAL: Lobster

What I do know from reading this forum is that one or more projects are moving forward and will eventually reach completion.

That may be, but it appears to be moving at a frozen molasses-type pace; with nary a peep over the last 9 months.
Not sure how much reserves of patience are left in the cupboards of the TOAW community.
It would appear those reserves are beginning to wane sharply.

+1

The sun will eventually go nova too. So it all depends what time scale 'eventually' means for this product. If their version of eventually is greater than the eventual end of my life, then ... [:D]

Not mine - it's a good game now and I look forward to it getting better - regardless of the variety of sticky sweet stuff being mentioned.

If you don't want to play it now then feel free to sod off until there is some news - that way you won't get pissed off, and you won't piss anyone else off.

What I am upset about, besides the lack of information, is that some 'special' people have access to a better version than the larger community does.

If you look at the World in Flames forum, you do not see people from the beta team posting AARs, etc. about all the cool things they can do with versions of the game that only they have access to. So either stop posting this crap or give everyone access to the beta (or wherever version this is).

I can see where that would be some cause for being upset. However, look at it this way: if a small group of people want to tinker around with various beta builds and play each other using purely beta material, that's their choice, and I don't take it as a sort of taunt. What I mean is, First, there's no assurance that a new patch, or a new game called TOAW IV, (or 4, or 44, or whatever we call it) is going to get published at all anymore, since the existing info is pretty old. If that is the case, then all of those people's design work is for nothing, and all of the AAR's with pictures won't change it. Second, if anything new DOES get released, then everyone benefits because of a long, slow, and extensive testing process, that should make the entire package bug and problem free, and all of the scenarios fully balanced and tested. (Nothing is ever bug free though.)

In the end, it's completely up to Matrix...it's their product, and their choice as to whether or not they want to have an open beta, make announcements, or just maintain the status-quo. My guess is that things are going to stay the way they are, whether we like it or not.

Just take a look at where TOAW is in the general Forum structure...sort of pushed down towards the bottom, with a whole lot of "older" games, I don't think it gets the interest, or views the "main stream" games do, which might effect Matrix's interest level. Then, there is the fact that TOAW is (or was) being worked on by a part-time coder, and scenario designers. This can be both good and bad. For the good, what has been accomplished for the Tiller Campaign Series stands out. For what's in between, there's TOAW itself. For what didn't work as planned, Grigsby's "Bombing The Reich/Eagle Day" comes to mind. The problem is always real life issues vs enthusiast activity time.

So, once again, it's really up to Matrix as to whether we ever get any definite information at all.

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

What I am upset about, besides the lack of information, is that some 'special' people have access to a better version than the larger community does.For my part, I'll keep a lookout, and if something go

If you look at the World in Flames forum, you do not see people from the beta team posting AARs, etc. about all the cool things they can do with versions of the game that only they have access to. So either stop posting this crap or give everyone access to the beta (or wherever version this is).

So, once again, it's really up to Matrix as to whether we ever get any definite information at all.

Well hell - now I feel like an old eskimo on the ice pack waving goodbye to my children and grandchildren.

NOTE: to the anthropologcally challenged: eskimoes don't wait for their old people to die. Once they've used up their usefulness they are left to die as the group moves on. It's what they do. It's who they are.

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

NOTE: to the anthropologcally challenged: eskimoes don't wait for their old people to die. Once they've used up their usefulness they are left to die as the group moves on. It's what they do. It's who they are.

Can't resist;

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... oes-to-die

It's not, and hasn't been for 75 years.

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

What I am upset about, besides the lack of information, is that some 'special' people have access to a better version than the larger community does.

If you look at the World in Flames forum, you do not see people from the beta team posting AARs, etc. about all the cool things they can do with versions of the game that only they have access to. So either stop posting this crap or give everyone access to the beta (or wherever version this is).

I se this in all sorts of games from various publishers - they might be called snippets or teasers, and closed test groups are hardly new, and generally people are happy to know that there are updates in hand.

So I completely reject your position - I find it whiny and pathetic.

I am delighted to see progress reports and test AAR's - please keep them up!

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

NOTE: to the anthropologcally challenged: eskimoes don't wait for their old people to die. Once they've used up their usefulness they are left to die as the group moves on. It's what they do. It's who they are.

Can't resist;

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... oes-to-die

It's not, and hasn't been for 75 years.

Well good - though in historical terms 75 years is just a blink of an eye.

In any event that may mean that there's hope that Matrix has evolved and won't leave us on the ice either.

WiF betas did AARs prior to release of the program. And I have no problem with that as there was NO release date set for when the game was to be released. So it was as you say a progress and testing showcase.

The opposite is true here. We have imho what looks like a release date for a patch for an existing game, not a new game, and 9 months later only a few select people have access to it. I have no problem with beta testing going on. I DO have a problem with people showing what a patch (again not a new game) can do that everyone here would like to play with too, even in a beta state. Also wouldn't having MORE people involved in the beta testing be better? More people involved seems to work well for a lot of other games. So why not this one?

Especially since the current patch's EXE had to hacked by a player just to fix a major issue with the game engine. Still no 'official' fix for that either. And you think I am whiny and pathetic because I am highlighting this as an issue? I find it pretty amazing that you seem to think it is ok behavior for a player to hack the EXE to fix an issue, an alluded to patch that is 6 months overdue, and absolutely NO information from anyone for 9 months. I do NOT find this behavior acceptable. So I will continue to bring this up. Whiny and pathetically or not.

+1

Example of a Matrix release date: http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1491/Ba ... lease.date!

Now please stop feeding the troll.

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Example of a Matrix release date: http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1491/Ba ... lease.date!

Now please stop feeding the troll.

I'll admit to not being the sharpest pencil in the pack, and maybe I'm not quite comprehending things, but the closest I can find for TOAW are this: tm.asp?m=1574544 (9-27-07, Not quite 7 years ago. This concerns the 3.2 patch though, NOT 3.4 - couldn't find that, but I'll bet I overlooked it.)

And this: tm.asp?m=3462323 (11-9-13, Not quite 9 months ago.)

And this: tm.asp?m=3462323&mpage=2&key= (See Post #50, 6-13-14, 3 days short of 2 months ago.)

And then there's this: tm.asp?m=3462345 (11-9-13, Also not quite 9 months ago.)

Only the first example matches that announcement link that I can see, the others are statements regarding developments and in the case of the second example, a sort of semi-promise to tell us something soon.

Personally I don't think anyone is being a troll here at all. Some people are simply more outspoken than others. That doesn't make ANYBODY who's commented in this thread (a) stupid, (b) exclusively right, or (c) exclusively wrong.

Calling names, and exchanging insults does nothing at all to further the common goal, which I thought was to see if we can maybe get some official word about what's going on with TOAW.

Remember what Ben Franklin said about hanging together or hanging separately. Let's not damage our own cause. If we're civil and respectful to each other, it just might encourage a response from Matrix if someone in authority reads the thread.

We live in a capitalist economy (a good thing).

Matrix must play by the rules to survive.

This is what it is all about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTFJocQBLyE