Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Pariah

You may have just saved me from getting ES online and wasting money. If it is nothing like the others, I do not want it. I am a fan of the series as far back as Morrowwind.

ORIGINAL: Trugrit

ORIGINAL: Pariah

$60 - $80 is a high price to pay for a game.I am sure it is worth it to those who enjoy it (if not more)

Pariah,

Here is the scoop on the cost of WITPAE.

You need to really think of WITPAE as a “bundle”.

There are 2 main campaign games that can be tweaked into 4 variations.
For practical purposes Two separate games.The allied side and the Japanese side.

The mechanics are the same but trust me the Japanese side is a completely different game strategy wise.
I know because I’ve played both sides. I have 3 college degrees and the Japanese side is almost too complex for me to handle. I’m talking advanced project management, cost benefit analysis, and industrial production management. There is a special third party utility called tracker available that sorts configurable categories into around 22 different parameters.

There are forum posts from players who have used advanced mathematics to calculate port capacity and ship load and offload times. Math formulas are embedded in the manual. Know of many games like that?

When you see a war game where engineering is sometimes more important than combat you know it's a serious war game.

Then you have the submarine game.
American, British, Dutch and Japanese subs comprising about 30 different classes of submarines.
Subs that can patrol and loiter and return to port to rearm and refuel on their own.
Sub commanders that make decisions to attack with torpedoes or surface and use deck guns on their own.
Subs that can lay mines
Subs that can transport troops and supplies.
Japanese Subs that can launch float planes for search.
Midget subs
Midget sub carriers.
All this in the entire Pacific theater at 40 NM per hex.

Where in the game universe are you going to go to get a very good and detailed strategic Pacific War submarine game that covers all nationalities in the entire geographical theater? The answer is nowhere else.

Currently there are three different map styles available with information configurable for the user.

Then you have the short scenarios about 7 official and God knows how many short mods.

Then you have what I call the big intense mods,like DaBabes. Currently about 14 games for that one alone.

Then you have the editor so you can configure the game your way.

All I’ve said above just barely scratches the surface of WITPAE.
I have not covered all the naval or the air and land forces.

So for a measly $79.99 you can get about 30 games in this one package."Bundle"
That’s around $2.60 per game. Only, If you like WW2 in the Pacific.

But here is the straight of it. WITPAE is a serious adult game.
This game is an acquired taste. If you don’t acquire the taste for it, it’s not for you.
It takes real brain work..
It can be very hard to learn.
It can be boring and tedious and frustrating just like the real military (I’m former Navy)
This is one of the reasons I like it.

Also, this game is not for children. In fact WITPAE weeds out children very fast. Just like in the adult world.
There are children on the forum.I know, I’ve seen them throw tantrums on the WITPAE forum because they had to read and understand something complex in the manual or because the game did not give them instant gratification.Or because they have played so many children’s war games that they don’t understand how modern industrial war works on the strategic level.

The great thing about the WITPAE forum is that I have not seen any children there in a very long time.
The other factor, as you have indicated,is that it costs a lot of money. That weeds out children and it’s a good thing, children would not understand it anyway.

Of course there are not any children on this thread.

All that said, I have nothing against children. In fact I love all children. I read their posts and sometimes I play their games for fun.

Then I go back to serious war games. Being former military, I’ve served on combat ships and chewed dirt with the marines. In other words, I have acquired the taste for serious adult war games.

K

[/b]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Trugrit

ORIGINAL: Pariah

$60 - $80 is a high price to pay for a game.I am sure it is worth it to those who enjoy it (if not more)

Pariah,

Here is the scoop on the cost of WITPAE.

You need to really think of WITPAE as a “bundle”.

There are 2 main campaign games that can be tweaked into 4 variations.
For practical purposes Two separate games.The allied side and the Japanese side.

The mechanics are the same but trust me the Japanese side is a completely different game strategy wise.
I know because I’ve played both sides. I have 3 college degrees and the Japanese side is almost too complex for me to handle. I’m talking advanced project management, cost benefit analysis, and industrial production management. There is a special third party utility called tracker available that sorts configurable categories into around 22 different parameters.

There are forum posts from players who have used advanced mathematics to calculate port capacity and ship load and offload times. Math formulas are embedded in the manual. Know of many games like that?

When you see a war game where engineering is sometimes more important than combat you know it's a serious war game.

Then you have the submarine game.
American, British, Dutch and Japanese subs comprising about 30 different classes of submarines.
Subs that can patrol and loiter and return to port to rearm and refuel on their own.
Sub commanders that make decisions to attack with torpedoes or surface and use deck guns on their own.
Subs that can lay mines
Subs that can transport troops and supplies.
Japanese Subs that can launch float planes for search.
Midget subs
Midget sub carriers.
All this in the entire Pacific theater at 40 NM per hex.

Where in the game universe are you going to go to get a very good and detailed strategic Pacific War submarine game that covers all nationalities in the entire geographical theater? The answer is nowhere else.

Currently there are three different map styles available with information configurable for the user.

Then you have the short scenarios about 7 official and God knows how many short mods.

Then you have what I call the big intense mods,like DaBabes. Currently about 14 games for that one alone.

Then you have the editor so you can configure the game your way.

All I’ve said above just barely scratches the surface of WITPAE.
I have not covered all the naval or the air and land forces.

So for a measly $79.99 you can get about 30 games in this one package."Bundle"
That’s around $2.60 per game. Only, If you like WW2 in the Pacific.

But here is the straight of it. WITPAE is a serious adult game.
This game is an acquired taste. If you don’t acquire the taste for it, it’s not for you.
It takes real brain work..
It can be very hard to learn.
It can be boring and tedious and frustrating just like the real military (I’m former Navy)
This is one of the reasons I like it.

Also, this game is not for children. In fact WITPAE weeds out children very fast. Just like in the adult world.
There are children on the forum.I know, I’ve seen them throw tantrums on the WITPAE forum because they had to read and understand something complex in the manual or because the game did not give them instant gratification.Or because they have played so many children’s war games that they don’t understand how modern industrial war works on the strategic level.

The great thing about the WITPAE forum is that I have not seen any children there in a very long time.
The other factor, as you have indicated,is that it costs a lot of money. That weeds out children and it’s a good thing, children would not understand it anyway.

Of course there are not any children on this thread.

All that said, I have nothing against children. In fact I love all children. I read their posts and sometimes I play their games for fun.

Then I go back to serious war games. Being former military, I’ve served on combat ships and chewed dirt with the marines. In other words, I have acquired the taste for serious adult war games.

K

[/b]

Bravo Zulu!

To your list I would add that when you pay circa $80 for AE you get a game that works, has a working AI, and still has constant patching support on nearly a weekly basis. Unlike some other very expensive games sold by Matrix/Slither. (cough--WIF--cough)

To the OP I get the cost risk. I paid about $80 for WitE and hated it. OTOH, I'm at a fraction of a cent per hour on AE. I would encourage you to leave this forum behind, go to the AE forum, and absorb enough info to make up your mind. There is many months of reading there. It IS the most active forum on this site.