Matrix Games Forums

And, South China:

ORIGINAL: ChadS

So....about my AAR.

Well, I discovered a couple of things. First, I'm not terribly good at documenting this sort of thing. First few turns, sure, and that is stuff I can reuse. But as things got to the "hurry up and wait" states, I sort of got worser and worser at it. Also, I discovered, I've snapped exactly 1 useful screenshot.

This, coupled with the fact that, as Japan, I totally had no idea what I was up against with regards to resources--I think I'm pretty heavily screwed at this point. It is Mar 13. I hold all of Malaya except Johare Bharu and Singapore. I hold 4 points on Borneo, including Mili, and I have a good portion of the Philippines, including Davao, Legaspi, San Fernando, Lingayen, and Batangas.

But, Tokyo ran out of resources. I have resources..but I can't get them moving very quickly. Since mid Feb, I've been dropping tens of thousands of resources in Ominato, but they just seem to vanish. I think they distribute, but there isn't really anywhere that seems to have more than a few days (actually, I haven't figured out if HI, etc runs daily or every few days).

Conversely, Tokyo has a TON of supply, but I can't get it out very quickly. Other ports in Japan have less than 10k, with small exception. And, in a few places, when I drop off supply, it too vanishes. I get that supply moves. But, one mystery--I've dropped off about 40k in supply to Miri, trying to get its Oil and Refinery working, but I can't get the actual base supply to stay above 10k for more than a turn or two. And, the other bases I have on Borneo (specifically Brunei, Kuching, and Beaufort have a combined total of 4300 supplies with about 500 AV in troops, a couple of Engineers that don't count towards the AV, and No planes. Miri has a dozen Nates.

And, China is a mess.

I think I'm going to take what I've learned, couple that with a little better documenting focus, and start over.

1)Before you drop supply in Miri, set Miri to stockpile supply. Thus the 40k supply will stay there.

2) Everything (HI, LI, Res, Oil, Ref, Manp) runs daily. If your HI/LI location has inadequate resources on a given day, it will not produce on that day. A location with 100 LI and 90% of the needed resources will produce 0 supplies for that day.

Same goes for bases in Japan - If you want them to have supply to ship out, set them to stockpile and also increase the supply draw by increasing the minimum supply desired using the buttons on the base screen next to "supply". You can do this for fuel too, and you can stockpile resources. learning how to optimize supply is one of the key elements in the game.

Re: resources - be aware that for each point of supply produced by LI, you need 15 resources, which means the output from 1.5 resource industry each day. For HI you get 2 points of supply each day (and one HI point to go toward production of planes and ships) but the input required is 20 resources plus 20 fuel. Bottom line: you need to ship in a LOT of resources and fuel to Japan to get max production. You should have a large auto-convoy running between Sapporo and Ominato or Hirosake and also haul supply from Toyohara or Shikuka on Sakhalin.

About Miri - have you set the Oil and Refinery to repair? To get them to start repairing you need 10,000 supply at the base plus 1000 supply for each of the two industries. The 1000 supply will get used up repairing ONE POINT of damage to the industry. That one point will now start to produce 10 oil or 10 fuel each turn.
A lot of players don't bother to repair those industries because, using the figures from the paragraph above, it takes two years and nine months to pay back each point of industry repaired - that is the amount of time to produce 1000 supply. Japan certainly needs to fuel to be able to run HI and produce ships and aircraft, but you have to figure you might not hold Miri in 2.75 years, and you may not have enough shipping to haul the fuel from Miri anyway.

If you are getting the idea the Japanese economy is a complicated beast with delicate balancing required, you are right. There are spreadsheets to help the IJ player with aircraft production but I don't know of anything that helps with management of overall shipping to get the right balance of fuel and resources back to Japan while getting supplies out to the field. Closest I can think of is the spreadsheet for initial set-up of the Japanese turn at game start, found in the War Room section of this forum - author Kull.

So, regarding Resources, Oil, and Fuel (and, well,supply to some extent).

Tokyo appears to be the biggest user of Resources. But, in some places, it's a lot easier to drop those resources off elsewhere in Japan. Will the resources generally find their way to where they need to be in order to get used? My sense is, yes, generally that will occur. But, thought I should ask.

I knew this was an issue. I did NOT properly estimate the speed that it would catch up with me, and how hard it would be to recover from when it became an issue.

On Miri--I did set it to stockpile. But, I did not realize it was 1000 SP to repair 1 point. That's significant. I was likely delivering just enough to get one or the other (oil or refinery) repaired each turn.

If I stockpile in Miri, and deliver to Brunei (next door), will supply move over to Miri? Or, is that also a function of bumping up the "Supplies Required" value?

Thanks folks! Looking forward to giving this another try.

Oh, one last thing--did I FUBAR China, or does that look pretty typical? What I was running into was finding stacks that had anywhere from 60k to 175k of troops (like, 3-4 of these) that I really couldn't do anything about. I need to figure out how to do an encircle (I think that's what was suggested) before facing off with those guys head to head.

ORIGINAL: ChadS

Tokyo appears to be the biggest user of Resources. But, in some places, it's a lot easier to drop those resources off elsewhere in Japan. Will the resources generally find their way to where they need to be in order to get used? My sense is, yes, generally that will occur. But, thought I should ask.

Yes, just drop off the oil/fuel/resources anywhere and they will move to where needed.

I knew this was an issue. I did NOT properly estimate the speed that it would catch up with me, and how hard it would be to recover from when it became an issue.

On Miri--I did set it to stockpile. But, I did not realize it was 1000 SP to repair 1 point. That's significant. I was likely delivering just enough to get one or the other (oil or refinery) repaired each turn.

Repairing facilities can be a huge cost in supply. You will use at least 150k supply to repair the 150 oil that start the game damaged plus any additional oil that is damaged when liberating the base. Don't waste supply repairing the refineries there (or anywhere else in my opinion). You have plenty of refineries in the Home Islands.

If I stockpile in Miri, and deliver to Brunei (next door), will supply move over to Miri? Or, is that also a function of bumping up the "Supplies Required" value?

The supply may move from Brunei to Miri unless you set Brunei to stockpile too.

Thanks folks! Looking forward to giving this another try.

Oh, one last thing--did I FUBAR China, or does that look pretty typical? What I was running into was finding stacks that had anywhere from 60k to 175k of troops (like, 3-4 of these) that I really couldn't do anything about. I need to figure out how to do an encircle (I think that's what was suggested) before facing off with those guys head to head.

To encircle an enemy stack, you need to physically put units/stacks in all the surrounding hexes. Depending on the terrain, it may take awhile.

One thing I just noticed--several people have talked about the Oil and Refineries that need repairing at the beginning of the game. I'm not seeing any that are damaged. Am I missing something?

I guess at start only the Allies have Oil and Refineries that need repairing.

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: ChadS
Oh, one last thing--did I FUBAR China, or does that look pretty typical? What I was running into was finding stacks that had anywhere from 60k to 175k of troops (like, 3-4 of these) that I really couldn't do anything about. I need to figure out how to do an encircle (I think that's what was suggested) before facing off with those guys head to head.

To encircle an enemy stack, you need to physically put units/stacks in all the surrounding hexes. Depending on the terrain, it may take awhile.

Life can be easier with aggressive enemy forces. Encirclement is about controlling hexsides. So if enemy force enters the hex you controlled and you enter this hex later through the direction the enemy came from while maintaining your defense - presto, encirclement, because you seize control of the entrance hexside plus you already controlled other sides.
This also means that you do not need forces in surrounding hexes to maintain effective encirclement as soon as you control all hexsides in the defending hex itself. This can be easy to achieve in plain terrain with quick units like armor, and hard to achieve when rivers are present cause shock attacks may happen on you entering

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I guess at start only the Allies have Oil and Refineries that need repairing.

Right - in addition to Miri and Brunei, the Russians have oil production at Ohka on Sakhalin island that can be repaired, but they have no way of getting enough supply there until they are activated and their ships appear.

On second thought, check Shikuka and Toyohara (your bases) on Sakhalin island - they may have some oil that can be developed - you might have to "expand" them first (if it offers that option) which costs 100 supply per point of expansion to create the "damaged" industry you can then repair with the usual 1000 SP per each!

ORIGINAL: ChadS

One thing I just noticed--several people have talked about the Oil and Refineries that need repairing at the beginning of the game. I'm not seeing any that are damaged. Am I missing something?

Only Miri and Brunei. Miri's oil and refineries begin at 150(150) and Brunei's at 10(10). Everywhere else, everything begins fully repaired.

Edit: I was only talking about the oil & refineries the Japanese are likely to take. Never bothered looking at the ones that I think are out of reach.

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: ChadS
Oh, one last thing--did I FUBAR China, or does that look pretty typical? What I was running into was finding stacks that had anywhere from 60k to 175k of troops (like, 3-4 of these) that I really couldn't do anything about. I need to figure out how to do an encircle (I think that's what was suggested) before facing off with those guys head to head.

To encircle an enemy stack, you need to physically put units/stacks in all the surrounding hexes. Depending on the terrain, it may take awhile.

Life can be easier with aggressive enemy forces. Encirclement is about controlling hexsides. So if enemy force enters the hex you controlled and you enter this hex later through the direction the enemy came from while maintaining your defense - presto, encirclement, because you seize control of the entrance hexside plus you already controlled other sides.
This also means that you do not need forces in surrounding hexes to maintain effective encirclement as soon as you control all hexsides in the defending hex itself. This can be easy to achieve in plain terrain with quick units like armor, and hard to achieve when rivers are present cause shock attacks may happen on you entering

If you are having trouble picturing this, click on a hex where you and the enemy both have troops, then hit the F6 key to see hex side control. The coloured sides around the hex are really two layers per side - the inside layer belongs to the hex you are in, and the outside layer is the side belonging to the adjoining hexes.

If the hex side is thick red, you control that hex side in the hex you clicked on and on the adjoining hex (as long as you have forces in both).

If the side is red on the inside and green or white on the outside, you control the interior side and only you can leave in that direction, but the enemy can come from the adjoining hex into your hex, closing off that exit path for you.

If only one side of the target hex is green on the inside (the other 5 sides being red inside) and white or green on the outside, that is the side the enemy used to enter the hex and, as described by GetAssista, if you can have another one of you units come into the hex from the direction the enemy came, you then control that path into the hex and the enemy cannot leave (all hex interior sides are red). To be able to leave the enemy would have to destroy your units or force them to retreat out of the hex, giving the enemy sole possession of the hex and thus control of all the sides.

If you attack while the enemy still has a path out of the hex in any direction, and you defeat him, his shattered units will likely retreat out of the hex. Those units can rebuild themselves so it is usually desirable to trap them and prevent retreat.

Note that if the enemy is holding a hex and you want to surround it, you need to put a force into the hex to keep control of one hex side, and then use one or more other forces to enter the other five sides. They can leave again as long as one or more of your units stay in the hex to protect that pathway out of the hex. It is quite hard to surround an enemy force like this because they can see the trap coming and exit the hex or bring up their own external force to re-open closed hex sides.

Really good info. One significant problem, though--I'm colorblind. At least, I'm colorblind to the shades being used. They all look green to me, except for the ones that block crossing the lake north of Changsha, for example. I never really noticed they had different colors (except for the ones in the ocean which are clearly some form of blue or purple).

My daughter came in to help me, and she's only seeing green, except for one of two places right now (turn 2). I'll give it a few turns for China to heat up, then see if she sees anything different for me to pay attention to.

I have heard of players changing the colour of their unit icons (e.g. making the Dutch ones orange) but I think a programmer would have to change the hex control colours, if it is even feasible to do that. Try posting the issue in the technical forum and see what they say. There must be other players with red/green colour blindness issues.

I actually changed the Japanese to White and shades of grey.

there is a -colorBlind switch that can be used, but the only difference I see with it, is that the selected OpMode is no longer a different color than the non-selected OpModes (and similar functionalities like that). Not sure what that's supposed to benefit.

I have 2 types of colorblindness, and they aren't absolute. It is possible that, once I get the chance to see what some of these look like, I may be able to identify them if I look close enough. Intensity is how I generally tell colors apart.

We included a bunch of icon sets in different colors in the Art folder. Whatever set you choose, you need to insert the appropriate flags, but just rename the icon file to the file you want to replace and you're ready to go.

I think his issue is more with seeing hex side control using the F6 key. Can those colours be changed/brightened?

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I think his issue is more with seeing hex side control using the F6 key. Can those colours be changed/brightened?

F6 toggles hex grid on the map on/off, it's W that toggles hexside controls

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I think his issue is more with seeing hex side control using the F6 key. Can those colours be changed/brightened?

F6 toggles hex grid on the map on/off, it's W that toggles hexside controls

Doh! You are right GetAssista. Should have checked before I posted! [:-]

So, that may be part of the reason I can't see them....

Using 'W', I believe I can see those.


So, in this one, Allies can't exit West, NW, or SW, correct?

Are the colors (red/green) MY view of what the ENEMY can do (so, if I switch sides, it works the same way, same colors), or are those specific to each side?

In these, what is indicated? I'm unsure in the first one what Red all the way around represents. as you can tell, none of the hexes adjacent has an enemy (or a friendly, for that matter).