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RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:28 am
by Yaab
ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, I am NOT OLD
I do not want to play a detective, but your avatar is old, your signature is old, and your Primo Levi quote is old.
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:44 am
by m10bob
ORIGINAL: Timotheus
First, the design of the forum. First page is dominated by stickies, 95% of which are useless to both newbies and veterans.
Second, the top stickies should be resources to help newbies and intermediate (and vets too - lets not kid ourselves, even someone who played this for years still looks stuff up).
This is what should be stickied, on top:
jonboym Useful Info for Beginners
tm.asp?m=2576157
Sardaukar's Newbie Tutorial AAR for Newbies
tm.asp?m=2564541
Video tutorials for WITPAE by someone
https://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home
I do not see the need for any other stickies in the forum at all, unless I have missed another great tutorial for this game - in that case, sticky that also. And delete everything else - it's useless trash!
Note that the video tutorials from the last link were done on a computer system and windows version which existed before the Russo-Japanese war. In some videos he is broadcasting from the moon using 1960's technology, in others he is obviously in an underwater base in the Pacific hooking up through a 1970's ex-Soviet communication satellite to broadcast his voice.
What I am saying is that the quality of the voice(not the content!) is so bad that I can barely understand every other word he speaks!
The resolution of the (swf.... and other, weird types from 1980's files) videos is so bad that it is hard to read the actual words/base names on the maps!
After roughly a minute of a tutorial video, an air raid siren comes on and totally obliterates the gentleman's voice in every single video (either it's a Japanese air raid on Oz or a 1980's PC super-fan kicks in to cool the Sinclair Spectrum personal computer).
So after a minute, I cannot understand a single word that the tutorial mentor is saying...
As a parting shot across the bow, the impression I got in the forum is that it is made up of old guys, who have learned this game through years of effort and now want all the newbies to go through the same painful process they did, with as little help given as possible. "Why, I have walked to school uphill, in the snow, barefoot, in Alaska, and to learn WITPAE I had to type the manual on my typewriter myself!".
They feel like its an elite club and no new "scrubs" are welcome in it.
Trouble is, this is the worst thing that can happen to an entertainment product (computer game) from a business/marketing perspective.
That's it for my thoughts on the matrix WITPAE forum.
I believe I am fairly typical of the "old-timers" you speak of..We call ourselves "plankowners"...the ones who were here when Uncommon Valor was released.(The first to use this game engine prior to WITP-Vanilla).
If you will put your cursor on my name, you will be sent to the "members list" and will see the ability to check my previous posts.
In my postings, for instance, you will see as recent as last week my comments to one of those "newguys" you speak of, and see that I thanked him for joining us, for asking questions, and made it clear that "even I am able to learn from newer members"..
Like I said...I am typical, and you are bearing the weight of a large chip which in time may make you walk lopsided.
UPDATE:Just checked this WITP-AE Forum and indeed on 090716 (in another post) you stated you have not even acquired the game...because you are "waiting on a better sell".
Your longevity as a member of these forums has apparently NOT been with we who have the time invested in THIS game, WITP-AE.
You place an onus on those of us who play the game and expect us to sell it to you.
That is not our job and has nothing to do with "elitism".
As long as it takes to play even one scenario of this very detailed (and satisfying game), it may not produce the instant gratification you seek.
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:54 am
by pmelheck1
As someone who has been a member of the matrix forum all the way back to pacwar Matrix addition I have found these forums to be most civil. The only time things can get heated here at least for this forum is when some folks favorite ship is attempted to be examined critically and some rare folks pick up the banner of this or that ship would have won WW2 all by itself on all fronts land included except for horrible bad luck that resulted in it's sinking but without said bad luck it would have won the war! I don't post very often but do try to help when I can. At least in my case I have some areas of the game I am comfortable answering and others I prefer to let others with better knowledge answer unless no one has posted a response in a couple of hours then I'll take a crack at it. I too attempt to try and welcome all newcomers when I notice them. I do enjoy this forum and even when I am in a AE dry spell I keep watching the forum.
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:09 pm
by Macclan5
My experience is is very very very different than that as posted by Timotheus.
In fact I would characterize my experience as "exactly the opposite" in every respect.
Further I would hope that any prospective new player to this game will read other comments newer players have posted from myself in different threads.
I have no idea if moderators lock, delete, suppress threads or censure certain posters but frankly this thread should be considered for all of these types of actions.
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:19 pm
by Gandalf
Just a careful editing of the thread title to:
This forum is terrible and unwelcoming NOT! by the moderators would suffice.
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:22 pm
by Macclan5
ORIGINAL: Sardaukar
While I am happy that my old AAR was included as worth for sticky..
BTW, my old AAR is not 100% valid with newest patches been introduced, but it is help for tackling with Grand Campaign. When I got older WitP and then WitP-AE, I played couple of short scenarios for "tutorial" and went after that straight to Grand Campaign. "Sink or Swim"-experience. [:D]
S...
Your old AAR thread whether current or not is still extremely valuable i.e. more than helpful.
It is 7 pages with practical examples of tactics / concepts / oob / results and above all strategic thoughts about limits / holding the line / opportunities to learn and exploit.
While a person can (I read) the manual, read the sticky threads, and play the tutorials, when you start a Grand Campaign you have to start somewhere and your tutorial provides that foundation most new players need help with.
A couple of newer players here have started "newbie AARs" recently (Ldros and Schluss) and both of them are good works; they are delving into areas such as alternate strategies / further flushing out logistics.. but I have no doubt in my own mind they both have read your old tutorial and indeed owe some small part of "author inspired by credit". I would actually encourage you to drop into these AARs...
--
Again I note the OP has failed review or mention the other newbie AARs which again make the game accessible to new players
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:34 pm
by SuluSea
The positive of this thread is the knowledge that I'm associated with this great bunch that calls this place home--whether they claim me or not.....
I've seen and read quite a bit here but have to say the OP paved new ground.... Making certain I have this correctly...A person that says the game costs too much is fed up with the players that play the game and contribute to this forum in a positive manner, insults us and stomps away....
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:03 pm
by m10bob
ORIGINAL: SuluSea
"The positive of this thread is the knowledge that I'm associated with this great bunch that calls this place home--whether they claim me or not....."
Bringing the girls in the dugout back would carry it a long way in your favor?.....'jus' sayin'....
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:53 pm
by KenchiSulla
ORIGINAL: Yaab
ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, I am NOT OLD
I do not want to play a detective, but your avatar is old, your signature is old, and your Primo Levi quote is old.
Those are old, but I am not......
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:55 pm
by pontiouspilot
Some points are valid enough. Let's not scare off the newbies if we can avoid it. My advise is that the so called old timers might want to have a little more patience with the new folks. By the same token the newbies might want to develop slightly thicker skin to take advantage of the knowledge that can be gained. I suggest nothing further need be said on the topic for fear we prove his point!!
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:28 pm
by Major Shane
I'very been playing since 2012. I'm not an expert on the game and I do not make significant posts to the Forum. But I find the community on this forum phenomenal. The passion to share and discuss history, the game, the leaders, the "what ifs" is simply amazing. I regularly follow AARs, like "Letters from a Prime Minister" because they are exceptional historical fiction. Could the site be improved? Of course. But insulting all of the members, old and new, is not productive.
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:48 pm
by rogueusmc
ORIGINAL: Yaab
Yes, but you are a Sardaukar and can beat Paul Atreides in PBEM with closed eyes. We newbies have it worse!
But how long did it take him? Lol
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:01 pm
by Alpha77
He is right, too many trolls spamming some BS in unrelated thread (eg.mine) they apparently find funny but only the 4-5 ones that understand their inside jokes... [:D] They others scratch their head what the F they are talking about and why the F they not shut the F up or post something usefull to help eg. a newbie (latest example the AI thread from same poster) [:-]
Suggestion is easy if "oldtimer" guys wanna talk about their inside jokes no one but them gets, keep to PN...or use an off topic thread.[8|]
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:13 pm
by SheperdN7
At least he didn't say "time vampire"[:D]
On a serious note though, yes the forum could use some work sometimes, its not perfect and neither are we. Bill does an excellent job of moderating though and as GP said, the sticky issue is being addressed. I am 19 years old and find the insight and info of the old timers on here valuable and interesting. When I have a question, you all answer it in a good, direct way. Timmy Boy (can I call you Timmy Boy?) I understand you're frustrated with the old timers and hey! THATS OK!!! But please don't pregnant dog about it on here when 99.9% of us don't have a problem with them (in fact we have the opposite of a problem with them.) So just please for our sake and yours, calm down, take a chill pill, smoke some dope or something and then when you are over the hurdle of rage quitting, hop right back on your office chair and go scratch some flattops[8D]
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:23 pm
by Cap Mandrake
GET OFF MY LAWN AT _____________ !
1) THE PARADE GROUNDS HICKAM FIELD
2) THE RAFFLES IN SINGERS
3) EMPEROR'S IMPERIARH PARACE
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:27 pm
by Shark7
Hmmm, how to respond...
I think its fair to say that every forum has an issue like this at some point. There are people who are new and possibly impatient, and people who are old, grumpy and would probably be best taking a break. This is not exclusive to this forum though, welcome to the internet. [;)]
I also tend to see that it goes in cycles. And for the most part, the folks here are not that bad, some of us just have bad days when maybe we shouldn't have even turned on the old PC.
My suggestion, everyone needs to lighten up. Sort of the reason some of us have running jokes that some people don't get. A little humor goes a long way, so try to play along and have some fun with it.
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:42 pm
by RogerJNeilson
I read the initial post and have since checked some of his other postings elsewhere. I am sure we all know people who can walk into a bar and everything is just nice and within 30 seconds the chairs are flying.... Best often to just quietly leave and return another day when its been redecorated.
Roger
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:00 pm
by geofflambert
ORIGINAL: Alpha77
He is right, too many trolls spamming some BS in unrelated thread (eg.mine) they apparently find funny but only the 4-5 ones that understand their inside jokes... [:D] They others scratch their head what the F they are talking about and why the F they not shut the F up or post something usefull to help eg. a newbie (latest example the AI thread from same poster) [:-]
Suggestion is easy if "oldtimer" guys wanna talk about their inside jokes no one but them gets, keep to PN...or use an off topic thread.[8|]
Some of English as a first language can't help but tell jokes, not all good [8|], but just because they contain idioms or refer to, say, US or UK cultural things doesn't mean they are "inside" jokes. Inside jokes are like if I say Bullwinkle58 was once an MLB player are natural and not intended to put anyone off. Why don't you tell us a Westfalian joke auf Deutsch?
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:00 pm
by Alpha77
People always left when I entered a bar and wanted to talk with em [:(] They said behind my back "not this guy again wanna talk about his latest carrier battle in some BS computer game" [:@]
RE: This forum is terrible and unwelcoming
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:02 pm
by RogerJNeilson
Which is why we have AE Anonymous (AKA The War Room)
Roger