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RE: Latest SR
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:45 pm
by BradOrbital
ORIGINAL: ColonelMolerat
In other games, you right-click the game in your library, then click properties. Then you choose the 'betas' tab and choose the previous version you want as though it is a beta.
This doesn't seem possible with CMANO though.
Hmm thanks for confirming ColonelMolerat. So its not possible to roll back any versions on Steam if we ever feel like a recordable moment. Well... ah well yeah... aaah I'm off to make coffee.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:53 pm
by cdcool
Guy's, the reality of the situation: The Developers can do whatever they want whenever they feel like it. You choose to live with it and support them or move on and not be bothered.
Good communication is the key to keeping new and existing customers happy, but they don't have to do that either. You may or may not be disappointed again. It's up to them on how they treat their Professional and Commercial customers.
Do I think it was right the way the change was communicated? NO, and it wasn't, but that's a choice they made, I assume they thought about that before they decided to make the change and post it.
It all points back to corporate/company culture, with software gaming companies the approach is all over the place from outstanding to very very bad on how they decide to treat their customers. If you don't like it, you only have two options, unfortunately.
You have to make a decision.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:56 pm
by Primarchx
I'll side with the Devs on this one. Continued support for the player was in place until a build some time ago for the public version. They continue to support it for the pro version since then for a premium. And we've continued to get excellent spiral development and support of a game most of us paid cash for once in 2013. When do you think the last free update/expansion to Battlefield 4, a game also released in 2013, happened?
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:53 pm
by Rocksoldier
I also side with Devs on this... if this funcion has much value for professional edition it's better to keep that as an exclusive (so they can make more money out of it)
Let's say you have the choice:
1)keep the last release with the function enabled but will never get any update.
2)always get the last updated version of the game including new features but record function will be disabled.
Is there anyone that would pick number 1?
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:03 pm
by cdcool
ORIGINAL: Rocksoldier
I also side with Devs on this... if this funcion has much value for professional edition it's better to keep that as an exclusive (so they can make more money out of it)
Let's say you have the choice:
1)keep the last release with the function enabled but will never get any update.
2)always get the last updated version of the game including new features but record function will be disabled.
Is there anyone that would pick number 1?
I don't see them doing #1, it's a selling point for the Professional version, maybe they are charging a new client for that. I personally don't think it would make a difference either way if they offered it in both versions considering all the other stuff the Professional has to offer in addition to customization per client, not unless it cost money to include that feature or they are charging for it.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:38 pm
by LuckyJim1010
I'm more interested in the other things they could have taken out.
Are we to look forward to degraded, or removed algorithms that the professional edition customers don't like seeing in the game?
Perhaps something that shows their latest all singing, all dancing weapon system to be totally ineffective against it's primary target by the game code ?
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:52 pm
by ExNusquam
Personally, this reminds me of another feature from a different simulator: Player-controlled JTACs in DCS A-10C. This was a feature that was initially available in the early betas. It was then removed (in Beta 3 IIRC), at the request of the USAF, since they didn't want it in the commercial version. People generally understood - without USAF support the simulator likely wouldn't exist. The feature didn't come back (and then as a paid add-on) for several years until DCS combined arms was released.
I assume the situation with Command is similar. While the simulator doesn't owe it's existence to the defense industry directly, the developers do need a source of income in the very niche, very saturated market for wargaming. The Losing a small feature is a reasonable price to pay for continuous updates. And optional updates, at that. If the replay feature is super critical to you, just don't upgrade.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:17 am
by magi
i dont know what were talking about.... so i feel pretty good about the way things are....
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:17 am
by AlGrant
ORIGINAL: magi
i dont know what were talking about.... so i feel pretty good about the way things are....
Well said - fully agree.
The game I have now has far more features, units and accuracy than the game I purchased.
I was happy with it then ...... I'm even happier with it now.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:26 am
by Zaslon
ORIGINAL: AlGrant
ORIGINAL: magi
i dont know what were talking about.... so i feel pretty good about the way things are....
Well said - fully agree.
The game I have now has far more features, units and accuracy than the game I purchased.
I was happy with it then ...... I'm even happier with it now.
We know that both still haven't a clue about the key point. Of course, we feel pretty good about the development. These guys are amazing. Some people (I guess that both of you too) colaborate making scenarios and improving CWDB and DB3K,helping to improve this incredible product. That's nice and all we agree. That's not the point here.
The point here is:
Deleting a feature from the actual product, creates a
big uncertainty. This is the first of a long list? or only an exception. Warfaresims must release a Statement making it crystal clear, without any doubt (all statements still aren't very clear...like "I don't think so". We can forget that they are retiring a feature listed in the product website if it's an exception. But..If it's the standard from now?
I also recommend to Matrix, retire the recorder from the feature list in any product page or marketing product.
The Developers can do whatever they want whenever they feel like it.
I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:26 pm
by stilesw
Come on guys. I feel that kevinkin's comment on 8Feb17 is well said: it's best to enjoy the richest of what Command is and not get too caught up in what it isn't.
We are the user community with a state-of-the-art military simulation that has been created through tremendous thought and effort. Let's get over this and appreciate what we have and the continuing development effort!
-Wayne Stiles
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:18 pm
by cdcool
I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.
[/quote]
From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:09 pm
by Zaslon
ORIGINAL: cdcool
I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.
From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.
Yeap, I am sure that in the United States there are something called Consumer Rights (there are in the EU). And from the US come the threat... Your people loves to sue for anything.
When you buy a thing , the sale is like a contract. You have rights and obligations and they also have rights and obligations (do you remember the Warranty and refunds?
I know that this is not a proper conversation for a forum. The problem was highlited and I hope that Mike, Dimitris, Paul...are adviced about the problem. Oh wait, it's a Matrix Games problem....So forget it. [:)]
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:22 pm
by TheCabal
ORIGINAL: stilesw
Come on guys. I feel that kevinkin's comment on 8Feb17 is well said: it's best to enjoy the richest of what Command is and not get too caught up in what it isn't.
We are the user community with a state-of-the-art military simulation that has been created through tremendous thought and effort. Let's get over this and appreciate what we have and the continuing development effort!
-Wayne Stiles
Even if I'm new here and my opinion hasn't got too much of a weight I like stilesw post, he's right. We should be happy that it's going forward with an effort not known in other more mainstream categories. I remember the horrible days (let's say years..) of waiting for another hardcore combat flight simulation to come out... until DCS came and some awesome people reviving Falcon 4.0 to the maximum at the same time.
The truth is, it all could be way worse especially for Harpoon/CMANO... and look how it survived the decades.
Is one missing feature more worse than no CMANO at all?
Greetings,
Cabal
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:44 pm
by cdcool
ORIGINAL: Zaslon
ORIGINAL: cdcool
I do not know where are you from, but we are not living in the Wild Wild West. Developers and users, both, have rights and responsibilities. Both sides must respect the contract signed...You buy a product based on the product characteristics, the feature list available on the product page. If the features of the product changes, legally only can Add features if they want. But never remove features.
From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.
Yeap, I am sure that in the United States there are something called Consumer Rights (there are in the EU). And from the US come the threat... Your people loves to sue for anything.
When you buy a thing , the sale is like a contract. You have rights and obligations and they also have rights and obligations (do you remember the Warranty and refunds?
I know that this is not a proper conversation for a forum. The problem was highlited and I hope that Mike, Dimitris, Paul...are adviced about the problem. Oh wait, it's a Matrix Games problem....So forget it. [:)]
That depends on what you are buying guy..LOL warranty and refunds still exist for some products and services. Yeah you right forget it.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:14 pm
by Rory Noonan
While I am truly grateful that there is a game like CMANO, I also don't think that we should just blindly accept anything from the developers because 'some CMANO is better than no CMANO'.
That said, it is clear that some customers are unhappy, and I imagine the devs take that seriously. No doubt they have learned from the experience and if a similar situation crops up again in the future it will be handled with the experience this situation has brought.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:32 pm
by User1984
This interview gives some interesting insight into what we can expect:
Wargamer: Let's end on a bit of a tough question. CMANO is in many ways a game with two identities – the 'PRO' version being developed for real-world militaries, and the original videogame as an entertainment product. If CMANO could only be one thing, which direction would you want to go?
Paul Bridge: Either Or? That's a hard one. I would abstain... but I'd like it to go PRO. The civilian version has been out for 3 years now, which is quite old in videogame terms. We're looking at pushing that version 2 out. With a small team, my preference would be to go PRO, but as the team gets bigger we can push more people onto the Civilian side to continue development.
The PRO version is completely separate from the civilian version, it's only for military organisations, defence contractors etc... Their specific needs will be catered for. With a lot of military contractors they won't want their data getting to the public domain. There could even be a specific version of PRO for a specific company, which won't be seen by other companies.
The Civilian side may get some trickle-down in terms of features, but it won't have the full functionality. Take Communications Jamming, for example. The PRO version will have the full spectrum of tools and options available to them, but the Civilian version will just be an on/off switch – you're either jamming them or you're not.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:29 pm
by Zaslon
ORIGINAL: cdcool
ORIGINAL: Zaslon
ORIGINAL: cdcool
From the U.S., There is no Contract, I haven't read their Terms and Conditions but obviously, they can and they did, so you are saying they broke the law? There may be an NDA.
Yeap, I am sure that in the United States there are something called Consumer Rights (there are in the EU). And from the US come the threat... Your people loves to sue for anything.
When you buy a thing , the sale is like a contract. You have rights and obligations and they also have rights and obligations (do you remember the Warranty and refunds?
I know that this is not a proper conversation for a forum. The problem was highlited and I hope that Mike, Dimitris, Paul...are adviced about the problem. Oh wait, it's a Matrix Games problem....So forget it. [:)]
That depends on what you are buying guy..LOL warranty and refunds still exist for some products and services. Yeah you right forget it.
Looks like you do not understand the point...You need to read a lot about it in order to get the point. For this reason, yeah, I am right. You must forget it because you wont make the effort to understand it (its crystal clear reading your last message).
See ya and enjoy the game.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:07 pm
by cdcool
ORIGINAL: Zaslon
ORIGINAL: cdcool
ORIGINAL: Zaslon
Yeap, I am sure that in the United States there are something called Consumer Rights (there are in the EU). And from the US come the threat... Your people loves to sue for anything.
When you buy a thing , the sale is like a contract. You have rights and obligations and they also have rights and obligations (do you remember the Warranty and refunds?
I know that this is not a proper conversation for a forum. The problem was highlited and I hope that Mike, Dimitris, Paul...are adviced about the problem. Oh wait, it's a Matrix Games problem....So forget it. [:)]
That depends on what you are buying guy..LOL warranty and refunds still exist for some products and services. Yeah you right forget it.
Looks like you do not understand the point...You need to read a lot about it in order to get the point. For this reason, yeah, I am right. You must forget it because you won't make the effort to understand it (its crystal clear reading your last message).
See ya and enjoy the game.
You are correct, I don't get what you stating or what you are trying to say and I probably read just as much or more than you, as far as the effort that's another assumption you can't make. You enjoy the game as well.
RE: Latest SR
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:25 pm
by cdcool
ORIGINAL: chops
This interview gives some interesting insight into what we can expect:
Wargamer: Let's end on a bit of a tough question. CMANO is in many ways a game with two identities – the 'PRO' version being developed for real-world militaries, and the original videogame as an entertainment product. If CMANO could only be one thing, which direction would you want to go?
Paul Bridge: Either Or? That's a hard one. I would abstain... but I'd like it to go PRO. The civilian version has been out for 3 years now, which is quite old in videogame terms. We're looking at pushing that version 2 out. With a small team, my preference would be to go PRO, but as the team gets bigger we can push more people onto the Civilian side to continue development.
The PRO version is completely separate from the civilian version, it's only for military organisations, defence contractors etc... Their specific needs will be catered for. With a lot of military contractors they won't want their data getting to the public domain. There could even be a specific version of PRO for a specific company, which won't be seen by other companies.
The Civilian side may get some trickle-down in terms of features, but it won't have the full functionality. Take Communications Jamming, for example. The PRO version will have the full spectrum of tools and options available to them, but the Civilian version will just be an on/off switch – you're either jamming them or you're not.
Makes since