Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: ultradave

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Previously we were discussing the missions and reference points because those make more sense for air units that are out front or patrolling for enemy A/C or subs. If you just want ships to keep station and "escort" others, then F4 is what you want.

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Dave,
I think you have identified where I am going wrong. WRT ship stationing, I have been trying to do with missions what is more appropriately done with the F4 formation key. In my mind, I thought there had been some information provided here on the forums that said you should use missions to assign patrol zones for all types of units, when apparently they work best for air units, and F4 formations should be sufficient for ships. Am I on track here?

Some possible exceptions to this may be when you want a radar picket (or silent Sam, etc.) out front, or along the threat axis, I would think.

okay this helps clear it up. I was trying all sorts of things with missions, even creating boxes next to the base ship for the MTB to station in......

Also regarding the latest version I am on, do you know why, if I DL'd from the member site I would still be on the version/build that I am on?

There are version releases and there are betas that you can load as interim updates. It's really up to you if you want to update every interim release that comes out. Sometimes they fix or add something key that you really want.

I'm on 936.21 You're fine.

The reply about the station keeping was not to you it was to the question from jbaxter, which now that I see his other post, my answer was not related to.

ORIGINAL: jbaxter1964

ORIGINAL: ultradave

Snip...

Previously we were discussing the missions and reference points because those make more sense for air units that are out front or patrolling for enemy A/C or subs. If you just want ships to keep station and "escort" others, then F4 is what you want.

...Snip

Dave,
I think you have identified where I am going wrong. WRT ship stationing, I have been trying to do with missions what is more appropriately done with the F4 formation key. In my mind, I thought there had been some information provided here on the forums that said you should use missions to assign patrol zones for all types of units, when apparently they work best for air units, and F4 formations should be sufficient for ships. Am I on track here?

Some possible exceptions to this may be when you want a radar picket (or silent Sam, etc.) out front, or along the threat axis, I would think.

Well, yes, but you can still do a lot with the formation editor. You can make a ship (like a radar picket as you describe) as a fixed bearing and distance as well, and if your TF moves in circles, say, it will stay on that threat axis for you. If you want someone WAAAAY out there it's probably best to detach them and send them to a patrol box or line, at least in my experience.

I tend to use formation editor for ships only, and close in protection only. Like a near AAW or ASW ship close to HVAs like tankers and carriers. I use patrol zones for further out AAW/radar pickets and ASW sanitizing ships and aircraft. Then I have my CAP and AEW patrol zones out even further.

As far as how far on each...too many dependencies...weapon range, unit speed, sensor capabilties, etc. These are very OOB and year specific.

I will work on the formation editor but I am curious, why are the fixed reference points not working? Even when i create a box relative to the main unit the secondary unit will not stay in that box -- although rotation point works as I would expect.

Can you post a save? Not enough info to answer without taking a look. I'm guessing it has something to do with your mission parameters - whether you are allowing the unit to investigate outside the box, that sort of thing.

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I tend to use formation editor for ships only, and close in protection only. Like a near AAW or ASW ship close to HVAs like tankers and carriers. I use patrol zones for further out AAW/radar pickets and ASW sanitizing ships and aircraft. Then I have my CAP and AEW patrol zones out even further.

As far as how far on each...too many dependencies...weapon range, unit speed, sensor capabilties, etc. These are very OOB and year specific.

Good point and points out why it's hard to offer a lot of must do advice. The simulation covers a wide range of years and weapon and sensor capabilities, and every scenario has different threats and objectives. You need to be able to adapt tactics to the scenario. Unfortunately some of that adaptation is going to come from hard knocks and sunken ships/shot down aircraft. But they aren't real ones so it allows you to refine your ideas.

The same thing is done in the military. I can't count the number of times we "fought" WW3 in Europe and lesser scenarios when I was in the Army. Do it over and over so that everyone knows what to do or not do if it really happens. And of course, you can't forget the axiom that no plan survives first contact with the enemy.

also when trying to group selected units, why do I get the error message "joining multiple groups is not supported at this time Dissolve all groups except one and add all units to selcted group."

Because...joining multiple groups is not supported at this time. Dissolve all groups except one and add all units to selected group.

Translation...you can't join multiple groups. You can only add units to a group.

Then when I try and dissolve a group it will not allow it.

Somehow you're trying to join two groups. This usually happens if you're viewing in unit view mode rather than group view mode and don't notice you're doing that. You can toggle this on and off with the v key, PgUp or Num 9 key.
Don't try any grouping while in the formation editor either (not sure this is really possible).

You can also detatch units from groups by selecting them and pressing d if added them to another group by accident.

Thanks!

Mike

Page 17 in the manual...found it by searching the word "dissolve"

"you can detach individuals by select then in unit
view (see below) and pressing the d key. Once you get down to
one unit the group will dissolve."

That is how I have always done it. But don't do it often.

THanks, that helps a bit. So when you are in group mode it is not a fair representation of where all the units are, I notice, that when I grouped units together then looking in group mode they are all shown together, even though they are separated by some ocean.

Yeah. The group icon in generally centered on the group leader. There is a game option that does allow you to see members in a ghosted form if you'd like. You can find under the game options, Map Display tab. (Game Menu->Game Options->Map Display Tab->Show ghosted group members menu item).

Mike

So I accomplished the skill, in the scenario fast and furios. It was a bit of work, having to de-group all the units and then create one large group and then formation editor. When I finished and started up the timer the map was full of red and yellow concentric rings that I did not notice before, and it was somewhat over kill in that sense. Thanks again

You can fix that too. There is a map display option to merge range symbols. I don't have the game open right now but it's in the Map Settings menu. Just tick it and it will clean up the display a lot. You can always toggle it if there is something specific you want to check. For TF with several units, makes sense to just have the merge symbols turned on to reduce clutter. Page 23

Same menu you can select what range rings you want to see. (but this is something you should know by now I think).

ORIGINAL: ballyhoo

So I accomplished the skill, in the scenario fast and furios. It was a bit of work, having to de-group all the units and then create one large group and then formation editor. When I finished and started up the timer the map was full of red and yellow concentric rings that I did not notice before, and it was somewhat over kill in that sense. Thanks again

Yeah when ungrouped you can see the range rings for weapons (reds) and sensors (air=white, surface=yellow, sonar=greens). Its good stuff to know but can clutter the map. As Dave mentioned you can customize to display to your liking in a bunch of different ways by modifying things under the view and map settings menus.

Mike

I wonder why the admiralty is still losing so badly in the fast and furious.

Whole lotta bad guys in that one. You have to be careful not to lose missile boats that you'll need to attack the amphib units. I just barely eked out enough points to proceed. You don't want to charge in headlong. You'll pay (which it sounds like you are learning )