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RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:27 pm
by rustysi
Combat engineers can squeeze in fort reduction under any odds.
Japan has very few true independent combat engineer units, and to my knowledge none of them start in China. As a matter of fact throughout '42 there are exactly three that I can think of and two of them are only company sized. She does have a few independent engineer regiments which have roughly 16 IJA engineer devices 'attached', but these are TO&E additions and once eliminated they're not replaced.
I've never seen a fort reduction by way of engineers integrated within combat units, only through odds levels. At least through a deliberate attack. Shock attacks are a different matter. Not that I suggest LST should shock attack as the odds and fort levels are not in his favor. Talk about a massacre.[:-]
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:46 pm
by MakeeLearn
What would WitPAE style daily Combat Reports look like for Stalingrad?
In urban terrain, more rubble = forts?
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:46 am
by Leandros
ORIGINAL: eggmansdaddy
Night incendiary bombing and lots and lots of napalm with tac air.
LeMay did way more damage with fire bombing than the A bomb did....
Good luck with your restructured air campaign.
eggmansdaddy
Thank you, but "normal" bombing - that is, dive-bombing and bombing from levels giving any visible results, is extremely
costly. What seems to work, also from the perspective of acceptable losses, is bombing from an altitude of 25-30.000 feet
- also for Avengers and fighter-bombers/fighters bombing.
Night bombing results in most units going astray in the night, probably because of their low skill level. Now I am
concentrating everything against "manpower" from high altitude. It seems to give results, lots of fires. Ten more
B-29 squadrons are shortly about to arrive in Japan, too.
Also stepping up naval bombardments and withdrawing/rotating ground units for rest and replenishment. They were totally
"borked" after a faulty order of shock attacks a few days ago. Ground bombardment is continuing but land artillery units
shall also be taken better care of.
Royal Navy heavy units shall soon arrive in Tokyo Bay after their release from missions in the Dutch East Indies. HMS
Queen Elizabeth and Renown have participated in the bombardments for quite some time.
Well, I shouldn't hi-jack this thread anymore.....[&:]......
Fred
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:43 pm
by eggmansdaddy
ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Accidential double post
While I am at it. The well-known 3:1 ratio for attack over defense is based on equal combat strength of units of comparable size. This does not apply here. How many tanks do the Chinese have at Chungking? How many AT guns, medium and heavy arty? How many planes? How much supply? And are the Chinese units all at or near full strength? I think the combat strength of one IJA class A or class B division was rated as equaling three Chinese divisions that is one Corps.
But well, in a realistic game I should not even get near Chungking for LOC reasons, so I'll stop ranting instead of gaming.
You stated you launched an all -out assault....or so I thought, which implies trying to capture the city. I am sorry, clearly I mis-understood your intent, which was to conduct a limited assault to lower the fortification level....to what end?
Also, what I do understand is that you need a higher ratio than 3:1 to take a fort or a fortified city for that matter. Troop quality does not necessarily trump fortifications.
I do agree that having a city under seige should count for more than the results you got.
eggmansdaddy
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:44 pm
by eggmansdaddy
ORIGINAL: Leandros
ORIGINAL: eggmansdaddy
Night incendiary bombing and lots and lots of napalm with tac air.
LeMay did way more damage with fire bombing than the A bomb did....
Good luck with your restructured air campaign.
eggmansdaddy
Thank you, but "normal" bombing - that is, dive-bombing and bombing from levels giving any visible results, is extremely
costly. What seems to work, also from the perspective of acceptable losses, is bombing from an altitude of 25-30.000 feet
- also for Avengers and fighter-bombers/fighters bombing.
Night bombing results in most units going astray in the night, probably because of their low skill level. Now I am
concentrating everything against "manpower" from high altitude. It seems to give results, lots of fires. Ten more
B-29 squadrons are shortly about to arrive in Japan, too.
Also stepping up naval bombardments and withdrawing/rotating ground units for rest and replenishment. They were totally
"borked" after a faulty order of shock attacks a few days ago. Ground bombardment is continuing but land artillery units
shall also be taken better care of.
Royal Navy heavy units shall soon arrive in Tokyo Bay after their release from missions in the Dutch East Indies. HMS
Queen Elizabeth and Renown have participated in the bombardments for quite some time.
Well, I shouldn't hi-jack this thread anymore.....[&:]......
Fred
LeMay would be dismayed that fire bombing isn't working. So am I.
eggmansdaddy
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:12 am
by PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: eggmansdaddy
LeMay would be dismayed that fire bombing isn't working. So am I.
eggmansdaddy
No idea why you think it isn't working ... it works quite effectively.
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:38 am
by Leandros
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: eggmansdaddy
LeMay would be dismayed that fire bombing isn't working. So am I.
eggmansdaddy
No idea why you think it isn't working ... it works quite effectively.
It might work - but effectively...? For weeks now several thousand planes (among them more than 100 B-29s) have bombed Tokyo.
The AAA is equally effective as in the beginning and the "manpower" status has only shrunk to (144)17.
At the same time a couple of dozen battleships and heavy cruisers have bombarded the city every night. The Japanese are as
sprite as ever. So it seems, anyway.
Fred
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:18 am
by LargeSlowTarget
ORIGINAL: eggmansdaddy
You stated you launched an all -out assault....or so I thought, which implies trying to capture the city. I am sorry, clearly I mis-understood your intent, which was to conduct a limited assault to lower the fortification level....to what end?
Also, what I do understand is that you need a higher ratio than 3:1 to take a fort or a fortified city for that matter. Troop quality does not necessarily trump fortifications.
I do agree that having a city under seige should count for more than the results you got.
eggmansdaddy
All-out for me means all available forces participate in the attack - but does not mean the attack is meant to capture the base. The purpose of deliberate attacks in order to lower the fort levels is to get better combat odds for future attacks. Lower fort levels will help to get better combat odds. To capture the base I need to lower the fort levels to 0 before I can hope to achieve the 3:1 combat odds required by the game mechanics for capture. So I need repeated deliberate attacks with fort reductions [and keep bombing the airfield to prevent fort (re)construction]. Forts can be reduced by a) combat engineers before the odds calculation and b) by odds of 1:1 or better.
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:22 am
by PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: Leandros
... probably because of their low skill level. ...
Fred
Fred,
Pilots matter quite as much, if not more, than the aircraft being used. All of your B29 pilots should be +70/+70, if they are not, that explains your results. EXP/Skill matter a great deal. I should actually expect your B29 crews to be +80/+80.
Historically, the allied B29 crews were VERY good, even for allied crews. 4E crews in general were very good.
I don't see what mod/scen you are playing, so I cannot comment about flak other than to say the IJ, in tube count for stock scen, has something like only 20% of what the allies have AND they are less effective.
Naval bombardments effects are mitigated by forts, Tokyo will be 9. manpower strat bombing is NOT mitigated by forts to my knowledge which is why it is so lethal.
review several AAR's that went late game (greyjoy comes to mind right away), and review your tactics against those in the AAR's. If you are able to naval bombard Tokyo, then with appropriate tactics, Honshu should be a smoldering ruin in 30 days ... not just Tokyo.
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:42 am
by Alfred
Further to what PaxMondo has pointed out.
In AE the real benefit of firebombing is not seen in the number of "manpower" centres damaged but in
- the number of other factory centres which are destroyed by the fires
- the much higher number of VPs awarded for destroyed factory centres compared to merely damaging them
- the additional supply cost expenditure involved in re-establishing the same industrial capacity from a destroyed situation compared to a damaged situation
Alfred
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:03 pm
by Leandros
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Fred,
Pilots matter quite as much, if not more, than the aircraft being used. All of your B29 pilots should be +70/+70, if they are not, that explains your results. EXP/Skill matter a great deal. I should actually expect your B29 crews to be +80/+80.
Well, the B-29's have only been in the area a month or two (July-August), going straight into action. They arrived with
45-55 points, haven't improved much. But there are scores of good B-24 crews.
I don't see what mod/scen you are playing, so I cannot comment about flak other than to say the IJ, in tube count for stock scen, has something like only 20% of what the allies have AND they are less effective.
Normal, historic.
Naval bombardments effects are mitigated by forts, Tokyo will be 9. manpower strat bombing is NOT mitigated by forts to my knowledge which is why it is so lethal.
OK, at present they are at 4.
review several AAR's that went late game (greyjoy comes to mind right away), and review your tactics against those in the AAR's. If you are able to naval bombard Tokyo, then with appropriate tactics, Honshu should be a smoldering ruin in 30 days ... not just Tokyo.
I'll see what MacArthur does. He is pondering some devious strategies. Alfred's posting was comforting. Maybe they shall
crumble when I go all out. Engineers seem to work well, but I haven't used them much. It seems that everything from all over
Hokkaido retreated into Tokyo as the island was gradually captured. Thanks!
Fred
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:07 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: Leandros
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Fred,
Pilots matter quite as much, if not more, than the aircraft being used. All of your B29 pilots should be +70/+70, if they are not, that explains your results. EXP/Skill matter a great deal. I should actually expect your B29 crews to be +80/+80.
Well, the B-29's have only been in the area a month or two (July-August), going straight into action. They arrived with
45-55 points, haven't improved much. But there are scores of good B-24 crews.
The trick is to train up a sizable pool of pilots ahead of time and use them to replace the pilots in arriving squadrons.
Fred
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:09 pm
by PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: witpqs
ORIGINAL: Leandros
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Fred,
Pilots matter quite as much, if not more, than the aircraft being used. All of your B29 pilots should be +70/+70, if they are not, that explains your results. EXP/Skill matter a great deal. I should actually expect your B29 crews to be +80/+80.
Well, the B-29's have only been in the area a month or two (July-August), going straight into action. They arrived with
45-55 points, haven't improved much. But there are scores of good B-24 crews.
The trick is to train up a sizable pool of pilots ahead of time and use them to replace the pilots in arriving squadrons.
Fred
Exactly ... what they arrive with doesn't matter. Trade them out. Get your VERY best pilots in those B29's. Those guys that arrived in the aircraft, those are the ferry pilots. Beach'em!!!
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:45 am
by GetAssista
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Exactly ... what they arrive with doesn't matter. Trade them out. Get your VERY best pilots in those B29's. Those guys that arrived in the aircraft, those are the ferry pilots. Beach'em!!!
Not good even as ferry ones. Higher experience helps minimize ops losses when transferring
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:33 am
by Leandros
ORIGINAL: witpqs
The trick is to train up a sizable pool of pilots ahead of time and use them to replace the pilots in arriving squadrons.
Well, they have been flying daily missions against the same target for 1-2 months now with little losses (and results) so
there should have happened something with their proficiency. Morale is tops. I suppose there are limits for what can be
put into the game.
As a matter of fact (actually....) their results may have been good but it is difficult to read from game feedback. Is the
fact (actuality...) that the enemy fortification level is only 4 an indication on this...? This is, after all, Tokyo with
some hundred thousand troops in there.
Fred
The AAR:
tm.asp?m=3840708&mpage=18&key=&
RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:42 am
by Lecivius
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RE: This game is BORKED
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:50 pm
by Yaab
It is not borked - you just barely scratched its surface or lack fingertips Mk.I.