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RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:42 pm
by Jorge_Stanbury
All what have been said before, but I will add:
- numbers: by 1943/44 Allies has a strong numerical advantage,
- Soviet recovery: by 1943/44 the Soviets were becoming competitive in the air; LA-5s, YAK-9s, YAK-3s were almost as good as any German/ Allied plane, it was no longer feasible to maintain superiority in the East with outdated BF-109 models
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:46 pm
by Bullwinkle58
Symon/JWE, in several threads long ago, commented that the Japan plane stats used in the game came from refs that cited post-war Allied testing using high-octane avgas. Thus giving them performances the IJA/IJN never saw in combat. But those numbers got baked into the game. It was one reason as I recall that he re-did the performance data for DBB and the add-on files available in the forum. Not the only reason, but one. From memory.
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:23 pm
by Dili
Put a Mustang at lower level and see it trashed by several WW2 fighters.
High octane avgas in aircraft that have engines not prepared for high octane avgas is not relevant. So if he did it it is wrong.
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:43 pm
by witpqs
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Symon/JWE, in several threads long ago, commented that the Japan plane stats used in the game came from refs that cited post-war Allied testing using high-octane avgas. Thus giving them performances the IJA/IJN never saw in combat. But those numbers got baked into the game. It was one reason as I recall that he re-did the performance data for DBB and the add-on files available in the forum. Not the only reason, but one. From memory.
It was revised downward and - IIRC - the non-high octane numbers were used.
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:44 am
by Bullwinkle58
My memory was faulty. I found the thread on the aircraft stats. Octane was discussed and some posters stated what I had recalled, but Symon stated he adjusted speed and climb on other bases, and that in fact higher octane would have hurt rather than helped in engines not designed to use it. Alfred referenced a long, technical octane thread elsewhere inside the stat thread.
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:00 pm
by Dili
Yep that is correct.
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:51 am
by wdolson
ORIGINAL: Dili
Put a Mustang at lower level and see it trashed by several WW2 fighters.
High octane avgas in aircraft that have engines not prepared for high octane avgas is not relevant. So if he did it it is wrong.
I have read that when the US evaluated Japanese planes they did retune the engines for the higher octane gas.
Bill
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:34 am
by Denniss
A better fuel typically results in higher performance unless it's too good so it's potential gets either wasted or leads to engine problems like spark plug fouling, improper combustion or even engine damage.
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:06 pm
by rustysi
ORIGINAL: Denniss
A better fuel typically results in higher performance unless it's too good so it's potential gets either wasted or leads to engine problems like spark plug fouling, improper combustion or even engine damage.
Recall reading sometime back in the day that Patton captured 100,000 gallons of German aviation fuel and dumped it in his tanks. Never found a corroborating source, but if true I wonder what affects that may have had.
RE: OT: P-51 and Bf-109
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:52 pm
by Dili
ORIGINAL: wdolson
ORIGINAL: Dili
Put a Mustang at lower level and see it trashed by several WW2 fighters.
High octane avgas in aircraft that have engines not prepared for high octane avgas is not relevant. So if he did it it is wrong.
I have read that when the US evaluated Japanese planes they did retune the engines for the higher octane gas.
Bill
I doubt a re-tune is enough.