Random Questions from a New Player

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: dorsey
The manual says: "6.3.7 SHAKEDOWN CRUISES It can be useful to run a week or two long shakedown cruise, when a ship is first commissioned. Many ships come into the game with very small combat experience. "

But how do you order one of those, and are there any general guidelines of what max results are?

Just being at sea can increase your crew's experience, but only up to some limit. AFAIR it is 45 in both day and night

The limits vary with the type of ship. I have US YMS that have topped out at 25/25 after months of patrolling/transiting.
DDs seem to be able to train up to about 60 without combat.
KVs train to about 45.
Since day experience trains up faster, you pretty much know you have hit the limit when day and night experience are the same (with no combat to boost night experience).

[dorsey]

Okay guys, back with another question...regarding level bombers and naval attack.

There seems to be two methods to use the bombers: low - 1000 feet or less, which is reasonably effective, and higher, say 7000 feet, which is reasonably effective at making splashes around enemy warships.

There also seems to be some controversy around using level bombers for low level naval bombing runs--B17s for example.

So what is a good house rule? I don't want to sink the Japanese navy with hordes of level bombers at 1000 feet if that is exploiting the system, but I also don't want to avoid something that was a major tactic in the war (I'm historically illiterate in this area).

[HansBolter]

The game engine penalizes non-attack bombers in low level (1000 feet or less) attacks by defaulting them to their reduced (extended range) bomb load.

However, this disincentive is somewhat weak.

If you want a realistic self limit, simply don't bomb at 1,000 feet with level bombers.

Reserve those attacks for attack bombers, fighters and fighter bombers.


Vary the altitude of your level bombers based on the AA threat.

Against troops in the open with little or no AA I'll set my level bombers as low as 3k.

Level bombers at 6k or higher very rarely get hits on naval targets.

Using them in that role is more about need. If you have little or nothing else to throw at the enemy ships then go ahead.

With the presence of dedicated anti-naval air, the need to use level bombers diminishes.

[dorsey]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The game engine penalizes non-attack bombers in low level (1000 feet or less) attacks by defaulting them to their reduced (extended range) bomb load.

However, this disincentive is somewhat weak.

If you want a realistic self limit, simply don't bomb at 1,000 feet with level bombers.

Reserve those attacks for attack bombers, fighters and fighter bombers.


Vary the altitude of your level bombers based on the AA threat.

Against troops in the open with little or no AA I'll set my level bombers as low as 3k.

Level bombers at 6k or higher very rarely get hits on naval targets.

Using them in that role is more about need. If you have little or nothing else to throw at the enemy ships then go ahead.

With the presence of dedicated anti-naval air, the need to use level bombers diminishes.

ers at 6k or higher very rarely get hits on nav

What defines an attack bomber? Is that basically a dive bomber?

So the house rule should be: non non attack level bomber attacks below 3,000 feet, either ground or naval?

[rustysi]

The game engine penalizes non-attack bombers in low level (1000 feet or less) attacks by defaulting them to their reduced (extended range) bomb load.

Not 100% sure, but I think this was changed somewhere along the line, and is no longer the case.

The controversy over this really relates to how the code works when it comes to bomb loads and hits. Now don't get me wrong, I've no magic access to the code, but this is as I understand how it works.

So a four engine bomber carries a large number of bombs (relative to other A/C) and when it bombs its 'hit rate' is generated with this as a factor. So they tend to get more hits than other bombers making them a bit more effective than they might have been otherwise. Now this is necessary when it comes to say city bombing as otherwise you may get no result, but against shipping it may not be the case. So the Dev's had to code as best they could to have things work in the overall picture. Could it have been done otherwise, sure if you're the DoD and your budget is basically unlimited.

So players balked at the practice and HR'd it many times to 4E bomber must stay above 10k when bombing shipping. That doesn't include 4E naval bombers in cases I've seen. TBH, depending on the type of ship 2E bombers do a pretty good number on shipping too and the Allies have plenty of these so... Its again up to the players and how they wish to play.

Of course the above is JMHO. YMMV. Ciao

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: dorsey

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The game engine penalizes non-attack bombers in low level (1000 feet or less) attacks by defaulting them to their reduced (extended range) bomb load.

However, this disincentive is somewhat weak.

If you want a realistic self limit, simply don't bomb at 1,000 feet with level bombers.

Reserve those attacks for attack bombers, fighters and fighter bombers.


Vary the altitude of your level bombers based on the AA threat.


Against troops in the open with little or no AA I'll set my level bombers as low as 3k.

Level bombers at 6k or higher very rarely get hits on naval targets.

Using them in that role is more about need. If you have little or nothing else to throw at the enemy ships then go ahead.

With the presence of dedicated anti-naval air, the need to use level bombers diminishes.

ers at 6k or higher very rarely get hits on nav

What defines an attack bomber? Is that basically a dive bomber?

So the house rule should be: non non attack level bomber attacks below 3,000 feet, either ground or naval?

Attack bombers are not dive bombers, they are typically two engined aircraft with extra forward firing machine guns and cannons (to suppress opposition flak while they come in at low level). They might also have some additional armour. Look for aircraft with an A before their model number, like A-20.

[HansBolter]

The type of bomber is stated in the upper left corner of the squadron interface.

Not all models of a particular plane type are attack bombers such as B25s and B26s. Some models of each type are attack bombers while other models are level bombers.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The type of bomber is stated in the upper left corner of the squadron interface.

Not all models of a particular plane type are attack bombers such as B25s and B26s. Some models of each type are attack bombers while other models are level bombers.

I knew some of the B-25s/B-26s were configured with lots of forward cannons for Naval Attack at low level, but I didn't expect them to be called Attack Bombers because (AFAIK) they were not extensively used in ground support/airfield attack at low level. Thanks for correcting my assumption!

[RangerJoe]

If it has a 75mm cannon, it is probably an attack bomber. Although if you hit a Zero with a 75mm High Explosive cannon shell . . .

[dasboot1960]

actually BBFB, they were used extensively at low level against airfields and shipping. (parafrags for airfields, skip bombing for shiiping) but the fixed forward .50 mgs were also useful in these roles for flak suppression. It was a depot level conversion at first (P. I. 'Pappy' Gunn gets a lot of credit). But the process ran back up the food chain and most B25 and A20 'strafers' were factory built, or at least upgraded with factory kits.

[RangerJoe]

Yes, 8 Ma Deuces would make a lot of holes in light skinned ship targets. The would probably sweep the decks of un/under protected AAA guns crews as well.

[Barb]

IIRC - Look for A-20A1 Havoc, A-20G Havoc, A-26 Invader and B-25D1 Mitchell , B-25G/H/J Mitchell versions planes - these are attack bombers, that use their forward armament to suppress flak on 100-6000ft.
Other versions are regular light/medium level bombers IIRC (A-20/A-20A, B-25C/D, B-26/B-26B) that have their bomb load reduced at 100/1000ft.
I am not sure about the Il-2/Il-10, but they are probably light bombers just like Ki-30/Ki-31/Ki-51.

Some planes have armor rating 2 - Hurricane Mk.IV and Il-2/Il-2m3/Il-10 to represent extra armor carried.

Btw - most common missions of these attack bombers were:
1. Night/Day barge hunts (Burma rivers, New Guinea coast, Philippines, China Coast) - usually by pairs of aircraft
2. Airfield suppression (strafing and parafrags/parademos/daisycutters) - usually by large formations
3. Battlefield interdiction (convoys/supply ships, trains, railroad yards, river traffic, roads, etc) - depending on the target
4. Direct ground support (enemy troop/artillery/mortar positions, etc) - depending on the target

[RangerJoe]

I am not sure about the Il-2/Il-10, but they are probably light bombers just like Ki-30/Ki-31/Ki-51.

Light bomber, not attack bombers.

[dorsey]

This is all great information.

So for gameplay--house rules:

4es: no naval bombing below 10k
no restrictions for bombing land targets (I think low level bombing was used with 4es)

2es: only attack bombers on naval attack at 1k or less
non attack bombers: no naval bombing less than 3k (is that reasonable?)
no restrictions for bombing land targets

Do these seem like reasonable rules/in line with what the community here does?

[Yaab]

I do it the other way round.

Naval attack: free for all at all altitudes (you could also argue for 1000feet as minimum since this is the lowest altitude DBs release from and leave 100 feet for attack bombers only)
Ground attack: No 2E/4E on ground support (in frontline hexes) -only F/FB/Light bombers/dive bombers can bomb in frontline hexes
Altitudes: depending on bombs -250kg and bigger is 2000 feet; smaller bombs at 1000feet. No aircraft can drop bombs from 100 feet - only gun strafing allowed.this is to simulate minimum safe altitudes for dropping ordnance.
Strategic bombing in China: allowed for HI (arsenals) and Manpower (terror bombing) - forbidden for LI ( dispersed food production)

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[rustysi]

4es: no naval bombing below 10k
no restrictions for bombing land targets (I think low level bombing was used with 4es)

Would add no 4E's bombing in clear terrain.

2es: only attack bombers on naval attack at 1k or less
non attack bombers: no naval bombing less than 3k (is that reasonable?)
no restrictions for bombing land targets

No restrictions for 2E bombers, they did it all.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

4es: no naval bombing below 10k
no restrictions for bombing land targets (I think low level bombing was used with 4es)

Would add no 4E's bombing in clear terrain.

There's no reason for any of these 4E rules.

4Es on naval targets are a waste of a strategic asset. Not to mention army pilots don't start with hardly anything for naval bombing skill.

4Es on ground targets in clear terrain will cause absolute havoc and tons of damage, but again... strategic asset used for and risked on a tactical purpose.

[brian800000]

A new random question: Air HQs and torpedoes...what level do you generally set them at? For example, the HQ in Singapore at the start of the game for the allies, or the HQ in Pearl Harbor.

What is the strategy here?

[rustysi]

Air HQs and torpedoes...what level do you generally set them at?

How much action do you expect in the area? How many torp bombers need to be supported? Just a couple of questions you should ask yourself. I generally set an HQ to stock from 40-100 torps depending on what the needs appear to be.

[BBfanboy]

Each torp costs 10 supply, so the availability of supply is part of the calculus.