Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Well, that happens... but I was just shocked when I checked my losses. It is mid Feb '43 in my present game and I have lost 1 US and 3 Dutch subs. That's it... I have had several sent to the shipyards for considerable repair, but I am surprised at such low losses.

Japanese ASW is atrocious. From the air it is effective but the surface units are practically useless, they just suppress sub activity a tiny bit. Historically, in deep water the Japanese ASW was completely ineffective.

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: LeeChard

When you've set the patrol zone what is the consensus on the reaction setting?

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Subs can only be set to react one hex, and it is definitely worth doing (though I often forget to do so).

If you want to keep your subs from entering shallow water or ports set reaction to 0.

Thanks guys.

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I like to run my sub patrols into particular high traffic straits and then back out of them (no lingering). I have had excellent success with patrols that run from Mili to the strait between Formosa and Batan Island, from that strait to the approaches to Kyoto or Hiroshima, from Surabaya through the strait near Balikpapan to just off Mindanao. Open water straits don't hold mines very long so, unless my opponent is heavily (consistently) mining them it is not much of a risk (keep in mind that mining open water hexes is dangerous to TFs from both sides, so he is risking his own ships in doing that).

Between Formosa and Bataan Island was known as the "Luzon Straight".

I found that to be a great place-esp down the cost of Luzon down to Manial, for the '42 US Boats.

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I like to run my sub patrols into particular high traffic straits and then back out of them (no lingering). I have had excellent success with patrols that run from Mili to the strait between Formosa and Batan Island, from that strait to the approaches to Kyoto or Hiroshima, from Surabaya through the strait near Balikpapan to just off Mindanao. Open water straits don't hold mines very long so, unless my opponent is heavily (consistently) mining them it is not much of a risk (keep in mind that mining open water hexes is dangerous to TFs from both sides, so he is risking his own ships in doing that).

Between Formosa and Bataan Island was known as the "Luzon Straight".

I found that to be a great place-esp down the cost of Luzon down to Manial, for the '42 US Boats.

Thanks for the geographical reminder. Of course, the Luzon strait is between Formosa and Batan Island. The Bataan Peninsula forms one side of Manila Bay. Since you like to be so exact in naming geographic locations, I am sure that you want to fix that mistake...

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I like to run my sub patrols into particular high traffic straits and then back out of them (no lingering). I have had excellent success with patrols that run from Mili to the strait between Formosa and Batan Island, from that strait to the approaches to Kyoto or Hiroshima, from Surabaya through the strait near Balikpapan to just off Mindanao. Open water straits don't hold mines very long so, unless my opponent is heavily (consistently) mining them it is not much of a risk (keep in mind that mining open water hexes is dangerous to TFs from both sides, so he is risking his own ships in doing that).

I have to concur with the "no lingering" doctrine. The more detection levels a sub builds up, the less effective it is and the more prone to ASW attack it is. If I want to focus an area, I'll set the 3rd waypoint 10-12 hexes out into deep ocean to ensure that all the detection falls off before going back in for another pass.

I do tend to avoid straights, or any area which could have mines.

I also tend to patrol longer sea lanes, such as between Truck <-> HI...or Borneo and Truck. The attacks may be rarer, but more deadly as there is usually no friendly ports nearby for the victims and I believe I see better attacks from those random deep ocean encounters.

Curious follow up question for the valuable advice seen here.

1) Tend to set Sub Patrols in "tight hex patterns" ?

i.e. One Hex ( as mentioned in passing ) or series of close - tight hexes ?


2) Tend to set Sub Patrols in longer more extended patterns ?

i.e. setting one hex in patrol some 12 hexes away in deep water (as mentioned in passing).


I agree it is of course situational - no universal rule. I am merely asking about player 'tendency'

Disclaimer - I tend to set manual sub patrols (always) and usually in tight patterns - encompassing no more than - say 6 hexes.


My philosophy in this is dictated by a number of Allied AARs I have read.

That is "time in patrol is better than timing patrol".

Well, DL's are set to 0 at the beginning of each day/night resolution phase, manual p219. In addition 10.1.2, p220, MDL's for subs are cut in half every 12 hours. So take that for what's its worth.

I set my patrol zones up in relation to the situation. Now I play the AI so its easy. In a PBEM I'm certain adjustments will have to be made.

geofflambert wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:29 pm Human control always. The sub TF will try to return to port to replenish in a timely fashion, but sometimes waits too long, and subs cannot replenish at sea so if you don't have a friendly port that is closer, you may have a sub that is adrift at sea with little you can do about it. I don't let the AI do anything I can do myself, you need to keep an eye on your subs out there.

This might not be the correct thread, but since I found this about subs running out of fuel and it was my problem.
I made this error and got a submarine floating like a cork 4 hexes from Lihue (Pearl). I see it doesn't move but looking to increase system damage by each turn.
Is there no way at all to help the poor buggers, in what I think they are helpless trying to paddle the sub towards Lihue.
It looks desperate indeed and I assume if no help can be had it must eventually sink.

Technically it should be possible to refuel it, but maybe the game-devs missed this.

As I understand there is no way of refuelling a sub at sea, but it should still be able to move one hex per turn even if out of fuel. It's happened to me before, and I've always been able to get the sub back....eventually....

You can't refuel a sub at sea in AE. They will move one hex per day and accumulate system damage. If you set there patrol zones they're less likely to run out of fuel while on patrol....GP

clamel wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:39 am
This might not be the correct thread, but since I found this about subs running out of fuel and it was my problem.
I made this error and got a submarine floating like a cork 4 hexes from Lihue (Pearl). I see it doesn't move but looking to increase system damage by each turn.
Is there no way at all to help the poor buggers, in what I think they are helpless trying to paddle the sub towards Lihue.

Out of fuel four hexes from Lihue? That hurts. In lieu of refueling I often wish it was possible to call in a tow or a tug when that close to base.

Platoonist wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:32 pm

clamel wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:39 am
This might not be the correct thread, but since I found this about subs running out of fuel and it was my problem.
I made this error and got a submarine floating like a cork 4 hexes from Lihue (Pearl). I see it doesn't move but looking to increase system damage by each turn.
Is there no way at all to help the poor buggers, in what I think they are helpless trying to paddle the sub towards Lihue.

Out of fuel four hexes from Lihue? That hurts. In lieu of refueling I often wish it was possible to call in a tow or a tug when that close to base.


TOW.jpg

Out of fuel subs, like ships, still move when out of fuel. This is normally 1 hex per day, or is it turn? gaining damage which will slow the movement down to less than 1 but they will still move. This was done to simulate being towed.

Error posted twice.

Of all the vessels that run out of fuel, subs take the longest to get to sinking point in Systems damage. Four hexes from base is no sweat at all. 100 hexes would be rather more alarming.

And as spoken the exhausted submariners finally made it back to Lihue, with some great System Damage but yet they made it. One hex per turn.
I'm not sure if this sub was on strict patrol service around Midway since I might have given it new orders to search and disrupt some approaching TFs which then messed up any fuel checks. I blame it on the Captain of course

I'm believing that on sub patrols a submarine will in most cases keep the fuel shortage under control and return to it's base before it runs out. This situation must have been when I interfered with patrols.

Thanks for answers and enlight me even more on this game. Not a day when you don't learn something new for sure.