Matrix Games Forums

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Lot of reasons.

Fatigue
Morale
Luck

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Explain how it came to be that 7 Liberators were damaged.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Lot of reasons.

Fatigue
Morale
Luck

Sardaukar,

There are other factors, involving command line switches/preferences, which can apply. These are all player self induced issues.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: fcooke

It is a great game and platform to learn about the Pacific War. And the Forum folk are a great resource. I would think you could find Uncommon Valor out there for free or near free. And then if you are really old school Pacific War is likely a free download. Anything before that I would have to pull out my old Commodore 64......

Silent Service on the C64

I think that someone may have their combat animations turned off.

Alfred, what do you think of that?

Joe

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack


CAP engaged:
201 Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 13 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
54th Sentai Det with Ki-43-IIa Oscar (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

Bad luck of the dice.

The raid arrived when your CAP was in the process of cycling.
First intercept group set 4k feet below the incoming raid had ZERO planes airborne when the raid arrived.

Raid was detected with 55 minutes to react (which is pretty good) but given you had no planes in the air, they needed 53 minutes to reach an intercept point, barely arriving before the bombs started dropping.

Second intercept group also had no planes airborne, only needed 33 minutes to reach interception point, but only had 5 aircraft on standby to make the interception.

Everything you need to understand your less than desirable outcome is right there in the combat report.

p.s. Successful aerial interception is NOT all about how many enemy bombers you succeed in shooting down. Success is often gauged by how much you managed to disrupt the bombing runs and how limited the damage ends up being. Since 2 runway hits is a pretty limited result and 7 out of 11 bombers limped home damaged, your result can easily be interpreted as a great success.

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Out of curiousity, what range do you have set for your CAP? Dispersing them over a wide range can mean there is literally only one aircraft available to take on a raid, and it might be on the wrong side of the hex.

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

How do you know that they aren't?

Are you watching the combat animations, or do you have them turned off?

If they are on, you should see a first round of interception where interceptors engage escorts followed by a second round where interceptors engage bombers.

If your animations are turned off, you have no way of knowing if your fighters are intercepting bombers, or not.

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Explain how it came to be that 7 Liberators were damaged.

Alfred

My ground based AA.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack


CAP engaged:
201 Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 13 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 53 minutes
54th Sentai Det with Ki-43-IIa Oscar (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes

Bad luck of the dice.

The raid arrived when your CAP was in the process of cycling.
First intercept group set 4k feet below the incoming raid had ZERO planes airborne when the raid arrived.

Raid was detected with 55 minutes to react (which is pretty good) but given you had no planes in the air, they needed 53 minutes to reach an intercept point, barely arriving before the bombs started dropping.

Second intercept group also had no planes airborne, only needed 33 minutes to reach interception point, but only had 5 aircraft on standby to make the interception.

Everything you need to understand your less than desirable outcome is right there in the combat report.

p.s. Successful aerial interception is NOT all about how many enemy bombers you succeed in shooting down. Success is often gauged by how much you managed to disrupt the bombing runs and how limited the damage ends up being. Since 2 runway hits is a pretty limited result and 7 out of 11 bombers limped home damaged, your result can easily be interpreted as a great success.

This was exceedingly helpful. Helped me think through it more. Thank you. One squad is of 9 fighters (what was left over from earlier engagements).

Also - yes - I do have combat animations turned on. I try to watch them all the way through so I can glean as much as possible, especially since I am a noob.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Out of curiousity, what range do you have set for your CAP? Dispersing them over a wide range can mean there is literally only one aircraft available to take on a raid, and it might be on the wrong side of the hex.

CAP on Island is set to 0. Cap on the LCAP island is set to the distance from THAT island (I forget what it is, it has been several days since I have had the ability to play).

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Out of curiousity, what range do you have set for your CAP? Dispersing them over a wide range can mean there is literally only one aircraft available to take on a raid, and it might be on the wrong side of the hex.

CAP on Island is set to 0. Cap on the LCAP island is set to the distance from THAT island (I forget what it is, it has been several days since I have had the ability to play).

I don't use LRCAP much, but as I understand it, when you set a target hex for the LRCAP, you do not have to set the range-the aircraft will fly there if it is within range. By setting a range you are setting a larger circle for the LRCAP to patrol - certainly diluting it and reducing loiter time. And if you set LRCAP at the max operational range of the fighter, its loiter time will be zero so it is very unlikely to get an intercept. I try to keep LRCAP at half the distance the plane can fly on operations (as opposed to transfer range). And as with all operations, sending the aircraft to their max operational range will result in higher ops losses.

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy



Out of curiousity, what range do you have set for your CAP? Dispersing them over a wide range can mean there is literally only one aircraft available to take on a raid, and it might be on the wrong side of the hex.

CAP on Island is set to 0. Cap on the LCAP island is set to the distance from THAT island (I forget what it is, it has been several days since I have had the ability to play).

I don't use LRCAP much, but as I understand it, when you set a target hex for the LRCAP, you do not have to set the range-the aircraft will fly there if it is within range. By setting a range you are setting a larger circle for the LRCAP to patrol - certainly diluting it and reducing loiter time. And if you set LRCAP at the max operational range of the fighter, its loiter time will be zero so it is very unlikely to get an intercept. I try to keep LRCAP at half the distance the plane can fly on operations (as opposed to transfer range). And as with all operations, sending the aircraft to their max operational range will result in higher ops losses.

Solid info. Thank you.

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Explain how it came to be that 7 Liberators were damaged.

Alfred

My ground based AA.

Unlikely. Enemy B24s flying at 19,000 feet were likely above any ceiling from your AAA guns. More likely is that the 7 damaged bombers were hit by your furtive CAP/LRCAP efforts.

I recommend you identify the AAA unit you have in the hex. Open up the unit info. See what the major caliber AAA guns are. Check out their maximum effective ceiling on the in-game encyclopedia. Japanese 25mm, 75mm and smaller will have effective ceilings well below 19,000 feet. Japanese AAA using more capable 88, or 100+ mm guns maybe (don't have the game open in front of me), but you get precious few of these and that's a less likely TOE for a random AAA unit.

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

Well - I took screenshots but I cannot share them...

I changed them according to your recommendations. They will still intercept - but will not fire upon the enemy.

Now that you have 29 posts under your belt, can you please share some of the relevant screenshots with us? It makes it much easier to figure out what's going on.

My request list: 1. Take a picture of the fighter unit page, which includes their order settings (e.g., CAP 50%, etc.).
2. Take a screenshot of the pilots for the fighter unit in question.
3. Take a picture of your force disposition (large map) in the Aleutians scenario. Where are you flying CAP and where are you trying to fly LRCAP missions? Over which islands? Your references to the 'islands' have been tangential and are important considerations.

Lastly, when you say 'they will intercept, but will not fire on the enemy', what are you talking about? Are you talking about enemy raids on your fighter-based island (e.g., Attu) or are you talking about fighters intercepting a bombing strike on an island that you're trying to LRCAP? (e.g., Kiska)? If you've set your three fighter groups differently, we need to know which effectively carried out their orders versus which had some sort of misunderstanding with your orders. For that we need more details.

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

I expect my fighters to attack their bombers - but they aren't.

Explain how it came to be that 7 Liberators were damaged.

Alfred

My ground based AA.

Which patches have you applied?

Alfred

https://imgur.com/bw2EkZI

https://imgur.com/PzZTECI

Here are the first two images from awhile ago. Still have yet to get on. Gosh darn honey do list. Will get you other requested images soon(tm)

Alfred, I assume I have all the patches, as I connected via launcher. Is this incorrect?

The Zero unit is incorrectly configured.  LRCAP must have a specified target to be effective.
 
Don't assume the installer does all the work for you.  The version installed is displayed at the top right hand side on the game's selection screen called Main Menu Selection.
 
Alfred

ORIGINAL: Plumbersmack

https://imgur.com/bw2EkZI

https://imgur.com/PzZTECI

Here are the first two images from awhile ago. Still have yet to get on. Gosh darn honey do list. Will get you other requested images soon(tm)

Alfred, I assume I have all the patches, as I connected via launcher. Is this incorrect?

It looks like you have no patches installed. That is the way the original release looked like.