Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:54 pm**

And be aware of the trade agreements which need to be enforced first.

This means:

First: you need to send resources to factories to produce build points needed for trade and send them to the receiving major power;
Second: you need to send traded resources to the receiving major power;
Third: you need to send other resources to factories;

Now, if there are enough convoy points in all sea area's, that's not a problem to code. However, when there are not, you need to maximize the production according to these three steps. And you need an optimized solution...

If you get this right before using oil rules, than comes the oil rule in play. This makes things much more difficult, because what oil are you going to save where, and is there oil you don't want to move, because you will use it for reorganisation.

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:53 pm**

Also, there is something that MWiF already does well -- moving resources/build points by rail. We tend to ignore this, because MWiF gets it right, without effort from us. It would be best if we can keep MWiF doing this, and not have to figure out how to do this yourself. It seems easy, until you run into that unit that just put a ZOC on a resource, so it can be shipped out, but another resource can't rail through that hex. To repeat, we want MWiF to do this, because it already does.

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:10 pm**

Let me dust my python code off, write a couple of methods to pull out CP, RP, Oil & factory info/status from the game file and see where me might go from there.

P.S. I've never looked at resource points in detail inside the game file until now. Honestly, most information on them look fairly straight forward to include if they're blocked or not, route taken by MWIF, controlling power at the start of the scenario, current controlling power.

I did try an experiment and change the route of one convoyed RP by editing the game file. Tried a couple of times. Wasn't successful. MWIF reverted the route back to what it wanted when it loaded the game file. Maybe there's a flag I'm not aware of (yet) that forces MWIF to maintain that route? That would be really nice if one existed but I'm not optimistic. Hope I'm wrong as that would go a long way to solving this!

I do think it'll be fairly straight forward to pull out which RPs are not blocked and to where they can be railed, or to which port sent for convoy overseas.

As I stated, haven't really touch this code in a couple of years so I do have some cobwebs to dust off. Let me get something going which we can then throw darts at!

One thing I'll do before starting with the code is to document in a text file and post here some examples of my understanding for review and contribution (expansion) of understanding for those interested.

It's my wife's birthday today so won't get too much done this evening; but when I do like I said above will post my understanding.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:11 am**

10 Examples

# Example # 1
# 1st record
# [row,col]=[68,141], Standard Map NAM.CSV -> Iron RP (list # 3578)
# resouce # at location (only 1)
# Controlled by Japan (49) at start of scenario
# Currently controlled by Japan (49)
# 2nd record
# Blocked
# Production Form -> [No Default or Override]
Resource,141,68,1,49,49
0,49,-1,1,164,75,164,75,-1,-1,164,75,-1,0,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,49
-1,49,53,0
0,RouteHexList
20
141,68,-1,2,19
141,69,-1,2,18
141,70,-1,2,17
140,71,-1,2,16
141,71,-1,2,15
142,71,-1,2,14
143,71,-1,2,13
144,70,-1,2,12
144,69,-1,2,11
145,69,-1,2,10
146,70,-1,2,9
152,81,0,2,8
159,78,-1,2,7
160,78,-1,2,6
160,77,-1,2,5
161,76,-1,2,4
162,76,-1,2,3
163,76,-1,2,2
163,75,-1,2,1
164,75,-1,2,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #2
# [row,col]=[90,138] -> Tin (list # 3575)
# resource 1, controlled by China (53) at start, currently controlled by Japan (49)
# 2nd Record, resource flowing to factory [89,130] -> Kunming (list # 1029)
# Production Form -> [No Default or Override]
Resource,138,90,1,53,49
1,49,-1,0,-1,-1,130,89,130,89,-1,-1,0,0,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1
-1,-1,53,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #3
# [row,col]=[73,143] -> Coal (3579)
# 1 resource, controlled by Japan at start, currently controlled by China
# 2nd Record, blocked (idle)
Resource,143,73,1,49,53
0,53,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,0,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1
-1,-1,53,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #4
# [row,col] = [55,57] -> Iron (Krivoy Rog) (List # 3548 & 3051)
# resource 1 of 3, controlled by USSR (51) at start, currently controlled by Germany (79)
# 2nd record, flowing to factory [61,52] -> Burachest
# Production Form -> [No Default or Override]
Resource,57,55,1,51,79
1,79,-1,0,-1,-1,52,61,52,61,35,61,0,0,0,-1,-1,35,61,0,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1
-1,-1,51,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #4
# [row,col] = [55,57] -> Iron (Krivoy Rog) (List # 3548 & 3051)
# resource 2 of 3, controlled by USSR (51) at start, currently controlled by Germany (79)
# 2nd record, flowing to factory [58,45] -> Budapest
# Production Form -> [No Default or Override]
Resource,57,55,2,51,79
1,79,-1,0,-1,-1,45,58,45,58,35,61,0,0,0,-1,-1,35,61,0,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1
-1,-1,51,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #5
# [row,col] = [55,57] -> Iron (Krivoy Rog) (List # 3548 & 3051)
# resource 3 of 3, controlled by USSR (51) at start, currently controlled by Germany (79)
# 2nd record, flowing to factory [57,43] -> Brastislava
# Production Form -> [No Default or Override]
Resource,57,55,3,51,79
1,79,-1,0,-1,-1,43,57,43,57,35,61,0,0,0,-1,-1,35,61,0,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1
-1,-1,51,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #6
# [row,col]=[59,61] -> Iron (Kerch) (List # 3551 & 22)
# resource 1, controlled by USSR (51) at start, currently controlled by Germany (79)
# 2nd record, blocked (idle)
Resource,61,59,1,51,79
0,79,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,0,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1
-1,-1,51,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #7
# [row,col]=[95,110] -> Iron (List #3564)
# resource 1, controlled by CW at start & currently
# Production Form -> [Default -> Production -> Hull]
# 2nd record, flowing to [45,28] -> Hull, UK
# RouteHexList -> rail to Karachi[89,94] -> Arabian Sea[98,95] -> Azanian Sea[124,72] -> Mozambique Channel[162,51] -> Cape Basin [160,40] ->
# Gulf of Guinea [116,24] -> Cape Verde Basin [102,0] -> Cape St Vincent [72,10] -> Bay of Biscay[56,18] -> Liverpool [46,26] -> railed to Hull.
Resource,110,95,1,201,201
1,201,-1,1,28,45,28,45,28,45,28,45,-1,0,1,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,-1,1,-1,-1,-1,-1,201
-1,201,65,0
0,RouteHexList
46
110,95,-1,5,45
111,96,-1,5,44
111,97,-1,5,43
111,98,-1,5,42
110,98,-1,5,41
109,99,-1,5,40
108,99,-1,5,39
108,98,-1,5,38
107,97,-1,5,37
107,96,-1,5,36
107,95,-1,5,35
107,94,-1,5,34
106,93,-1,5,33
107,93,-1,5,32
107,92,-1,5,31
106,92,-1,5,30
105,92,-1,5,29
104,93,-1,5,28
104,92,-1,5,27
103,91,-1,5,26
102,91,-1,5,25
102,92,-1,5,24
101,92,-1,5,23
100,91,-1,5,22
101,90,-1,5,21
101,89,-1,5,20
100,89,-1,5,19
100,88,-1,5,18
99,88,-1,5,17
98,88,-1,5,16
97,88,-1,5,15
96,88,-1,5,14
95,89,-1,5,13
94,89,-1,5,12
95,98,0,5,11
72,124,0,5,10
51,162,0,5,9
40,160,0,5,8
24,116,0,5,7
0,102,0,5,6
10,72,0,5,5
18,56,0,5,4
26,46,-1,5,3
27,46,-1,5,2
27,45,-1,5,1
28,45,-1,5,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #8
# [row,col] = [142,194], Nickel, 1 res, controlled by France both at start and now (Free France)
# Trade Free France (80) to CW (201)
# Production Form -> [No Default or Override]
# Record #2, flowing to CW Factory [58,315] (Montreal)
Resource,194,142,1,80,80
1,201,-1,0,-1,-1,315,58,315,58,315,58,0,0,0,-1,-1,315,58,0,-1,0,-1,-1,-1,-1,80
201,80,80,3
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #9
# [row,col]=[80,21], Coal, 1 res, controlled by France both at start & currently (Free France)
# Trade Free France (80) to USA (11)
# Production Form -> [No Default or Override]
# Record #2, flowing to USA factory [55,266] (Seattle)
Resource,21,80,1,80,80
1,11,-1,1,-1,-1,266,55,266,55,266,55,0,0,1,-1,-1,266,55,0,-1,1,-1,-1,-1,-1,80
11,80,80,3
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

# Example #10
# [row,col]=[52,287], Oil (Estevan), controlled by CW at start & currently
# Production Form -> [Default -> Save -> London]
# Record #3, save -> [49,28] (London)
# RouteHexList -> rail to [66,316] New York -> [68,319] East Coast -> [62,350] North Atlantic -> [38,19] Faeores Gap -> [42,26] Glasglow -> railed & saved London.
Oil Resource,287,52,1,201,201
0,0
2,201,-1,2,-1,-1,-1,-1,28,49,28,49,-1,0,1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,201,2,-1,-1,28,49,201
-1,201,12,0
0,RouteHexList
52
287,52,-1,5,51
287,53,-1,5,50
288,54,-1,5,49
289,54,-1,5,48
289,55,-1,5,47
290,55,-1,5,46
291,55,-1,5,45
292,55,-1,5,44
293,55,-1,5,43
294,55,-1,5,42
295,56,-1,5,41
295,57,-1,5,40
295,58,-1,5,39
296,58,-1,5,38
297,58,-1,5,37
297,59,-1,5,36
298,59,-1,5,35
299,60,-1,5,34
299,61,-1,5,33
300,61,-1,5,32
301,62,-1,5,31
300,63,-1,5,30
301,64,-1,5,29
301,65,-1,5,28
302,65,-1,5,27
303,65,-1,5,26
304,65,-1,5,25
305,65,-1,5,24
306,65,-1,5,23
307,65,-1,5,22
308,64,-1,5,21
309,64,-1,5,20
310,64,-1,5,19
311,64,-1,5,18
312,64,-1,5,17
313,64,-1,5,16
313,65,-1,5,15
314,65,-1,5,14
315,65,-1,5,13
316,66,-1,5,12
319,68,0,5,11
350,62,0,5,10
19,38,0,5,9
26,42,-1,5,8
27,42,-1,5,7
27,43,-1,5,6
28,44,-1,5,5
27,45,-1,5,4
28,46,-1,5,3
28,47,-1,5,2
28,48,-1,5,1
28,49,-1,5,0
0,RouteHexList
0
0,RouteHexList
0

Text file containing above examples

rescource-points.zip: (2.02 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

Game file from which examples were extracted

Production-Dev-GW-01.zip: (1.59 MiB) Downloaded 14 times

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:13 am**

One thing I have noticed is that MWiF gleefully changes the routing one does in the Preliminary Planning step, but changes made in Breakdown unit step usually stick. So I would expect any changes made before the breakdown units step to be overwritten by MWiF, but would have hope for changes made in the Breakdown units step.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 1:02 am**

I have to look at those examples in more detail but this is a busy time of year, so it will be awhile. I was under the impression the Route Hex Lists only come into the picture when sea transportation is involved. Thus, the example of the nickel resource going to Montreal is intriguing if it actually arrives there.

I should add that early on with MWiF, when people posted frustrations with convoy pipelines, I used to examine the game files and I found as often as not that they had missed a bottleneck situation wherein they were positive the pipelines should all deliver optimally, but in fact there just plain weren't enough convoys deployed somewhere to make it work. This probably means the external program needs to report the how and why of this to the user, or he'll just end up frustrated with it.

This does not excuse the insistence of the program regarding routing via the Bay of Biscay, which I freely admit is awful.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:31 pm**

I used a python method (quick & dirty) that I wrote to pull out production resources from the attached game file below. The method produced a comma delimited file (also attached) which I then imported and saved in Excel spreadsheet (also attached).

I could use some help when folks have the time helping me figure out more exactly what's going on. Unfortunately, computer code isn't like us. It needs very specific and definite rules to decipher data whereas we humans can generally decipher data using less rigorous approaches.

There are 5 types of resources: Resource, Oil Resource, Oil Point Resource, Build Resource, Build Point Recourse. For each instance that I found I pulled out the first and second record* of that resource and wrote it out in a single line in the attached csv file. I also included the game file line number of the 1st record for each resource.

The second record (*NOTE third record for Oil Resource) contained 27 elements which were a mixture of flags, MPs, rows, cols. Below is an example of part of the data I extracted. Note that my crude & dirty method extracted 318 resources. It's not 319 because the header occupied line 1 of the spreadsheet for those of you counting at home.

: 999-Crude-Production-Report-Example.png (185.27 KiB) Viewed 695 times

Latest of the example game file (believe I only made one update from the previous posted).

Production-Dev-GW-01.zip: (1.59 MiB) Downloaded 20 times

CSV (comma delimited) and EXCEL files

Production-Dev-GW-01_production_resource_report.zip: (50.77 KiB) Downloaded 18 times

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:58 pm**

Thanks Ronnie!

I am a newbie when it comes to MWIF and not sure how to use this spreadsheet but I support what your doing.

I don't recall python much, I mainly have programed in JavaScript, TypeScript, Java, C, and C++ so I don't think I can help much.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:25 pm**

What is an Oil Point resource as opposed to an Oil Resource? A Saved Oil resource?

Similarly for Build Points. Factories and Saved Build Points?

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:30 pm**

Courtenay wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:25 pm What is an Oil Point resource as opposed to an Oil Resource? A Saved Oil resource?

Similarly for Build Points. Factories and Saved Build Points?

I think that's the difference. Notice in the "res #" column it's a -1 for both Oil Point Resource & Build Point Resource. For the other 3 types it's either 1,2 or 3 indicating to me the resource (or oil) point # from that location.

Zovs wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:58 pm Thanks Ronnie!

I am a newbie when it comes to MWIF and not sure how to use this spreadsheet but I support what your doing.

I don't recall python much, I mainly have programed in JavaScript, TypeScript, Java, C, and C++ so I don't think I can help much.

Please feel free to jump right in. I'm sure with your background you'll be running circles around me in no time.

I think this old saying fits me to a tee, "I'm a jack of all trades but a master of none".

Posted: **Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:16 am**

I forgot who brought this up and which thread it was in but it was to the effect of getting a concise listing of CPs slated to return to base during the SAS phase in order to put those that weren't suppose back on sentry.

In so happens that in looking at my python code for 2 to 3 years ago I effectively already have that capability. Well, I wrote a method to generate a report of all counters in play. I was then able to import that CSV report into EXCEL and filter on units at sea, CPs and Sentry.

Here's a listing filter on allied CPs at sea at the start of their SAS Phase.
NOTE: the column to the right of Name (Convoy in this case) is the strength of the CP.

: 999-Allied-Convoys-at-SAS.png (215.21 KiB) Viewed 649 times

Here's a listing filter on those allied CPs that are NOT on sentry and will RTB if not placed so (on sentry).

: 999-Allied-Convoys-RTB.png (283.13 KiB) Viewed 648 times

Posted: **Tue Jan 02, 2024 6:27 am**

Panama has CPs??

Oh, probably those are the Central America ones.

Posted: **Tue Jan 02, 2024 4:30 pm**

I kind of remember it has 1 or 2

Posted: **Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:44 pm**

Joseignacio wrote: Tue Jan 02, 2024 4:30 pm I kind of remember it has 1 or 2

5...

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:58 pm**

The following is an example that encapsulates my frustration with MWIF convoy routing, production and my inability to affect what should be a simple and straight forward route. Please bear with me as this example will take three posts.

Trade Agreements.

: 0-1-2-Trade-Agreeements.png (146.21 KiB) Viewed 582 times

Situation.

(1) Food in Flames Optional Enable.
(2) Allies took a hit to their convoy lines in both the North Atlantic & Cape Naturaliste in the prior axis impulse.
(3) Through mitigating naval in the moves in their impulse the Allies were able to restore most, but not all, of their production & trade.
(4) Complete mitigation I calculated would (should) require 1 more allied CP to the North Atlantic & 1 allied CP to Cape Naturaliste.
(5) Both the CW & USA after their impulse reorg phases had such CPs in place.
(6) Also, as part of the initial mitigation effort, the British Guyana RP [110,331] was defaulted to IDLE.

Allied CP Routes (after initial mitigation).

: 0-CP-Map.png (165.66 KiB) Viewed 582 times

Allied Production (after initial mitigation).

: 0-Production.png (116.1 KiB) Viewed 582 times

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:18 pm**

Updated Convoy Map.
(7) 1 CW CP. Liverpool -> North Atlantic.
(8) 1 USA CP. Adelaide, AUS -> Cape Naturaliste.
(9) British Guyana RP [110,331] default of IDLE cleared.

: 1-CP-Map.png (167.65 KiB) Viewed 579 times

Intermediate Production.
(10) These moves got the allies full trade & 1 idle factory (CW Newcastle, AUS) short of full production (for all allied).
(11) Looking at the situation I see I could (SHOULD) get full CW production by routing one of the Venezuela Oil points being saved to Canada through the Caribbean on to the UK through an available idle CP chain, East Coast -> Canadian -> Denmark -> Faeroes Gap -> Newcastle, UK.

: 1-Production.png (331.04 KiB) Viewed 579 times

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:36 pm**

(12) So I clear the (TR) Maturin, Venezuela Oil point default "save to Calgary, CAN", being routed through the Caribbean.
(13) I then select a new default for that oil point of produce -> Newcastle and then hit Recompute.
(14) Where do I start? First off, after selecting Newcastle for the Ven Oil and hitting recompute, the default didn't take. MWIF decided to keep the default clear, send the Ven Oil to Glasgow (instead) and route the Port of Spain Oil to Newcastle.
(15) Well, ok, I got full CW production including food in flames, so all is well. Right? WRONG!
(16) 1 of the 4 CW lend lease BPs is missing. 1 of the 3 they should be sending to Free France. Note that this loss lend lease BP is NOT indicated on the CW production form.
(17) 1 of the 5 USA lend lease, which is indicated on the USA form, is also no longer getting through. Also, to Free France, which sees their lend lease drop from 5 to 3 BPs.
(18) An if you look at the unused CPs, it's a mess.
(19) Can this be fixed? That's really question. If we can then this will go a long way, I believe, to making MWIF convoy routing and production much simpler for the average player. Heck, much simpler for all of us!
(20) How do I currently plan to handle this? By going back to the intermediate production in the previous post and editing the game file during final production to reduce saved oil in CAN by 1 and increase saved oil in the UK by 1. I will then load the game file and use 1 saved oil in the UK for production to get full production. HA! Take that MWIF!

Frustrating Production.

: 2-Production.png (333.81 KiB) Viewed 576 times

For those who wish to help I've attached the game files & python production reports.

game files.

Production-0-1-2.zip: (4.78 MiB) Downloaded 19 times

CSV production reports (crude python).

Prod-CSV-0-1-2.zip: (16.12 KiB) Downloaded 16 times

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:56 pm**

Trying to fix production in the Final Production step is generally hopeless, and doing so in the Preliminary Production step is pointless, because MWiF happily overwrites things you do there. For some reason fixing production in the Breakdown units step often works. What phase is your save in?

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:05 pm**

Post Script.

Something just occurred to me. One of the often stated reasons why MWIF convoy routing and production is so inflexible is that MWIF MUST, it WILL, enforce the rules meaning in this case that trade, including lend lease BPs, get routed over everything else.

Well, if you look at the previous example that doesn't appear to be the case. 2 lend lease BPs that could have been, and were routed, don't get routed.

Unless I'm missing something?

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:07 pm**

Courtenay wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:56 pm Trying to fix production in the Final Production step is generally hopeless, and doing so in the Preliminary Production step is pointless, because MWiF happily overwrites things you do there. For some reason fixing production in the Breakdown units step often works. What phase is your save in?

It's during naval movement. I personally like to fix my convoy routes and production during that phase because that's where I can add convoys if I need to to route idle RPs to idle factories. It's too late to add CPs during the end of turn phases.

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