Matrix Games Forums

My main issue is that the design don't blend in well... if we look at all the other more modern UI like Stellaris and ES2 you see a clear pattern in how the menus look. You can have the menu item itself being relatively opaque while boxes or rows of text have a slightly darker opaque background, this work really well from both a readability and still becoming subtle and not distracting. The opaque in the menu will let the menus blend very carefully into ANY background you hover over be it bright or dark and still leave all the text immediately readable.

I have no issue with the colour choices what so ever, to me that is not important as long as they are not bright and vibrant, that is awful. Some icons or images can be brights and vibrant if you want to focus on them, that is OK.

I also would emphasis more symbols/pictures and less text if possible as much as possible, it will save both space and is quicker for the eye and mind to get the important information. I also would give all resources a distinct feeling depending on what group they belong too... put them into an opaque box with a special muted colour based on its type. Say yellow for luxury, white for common, blue for strategic and so on... the more information we can glean from an instant the better the UI will feel too.
Ship hull and type for example, give each one a symbol... this will save both space and will be easier for the player to see. Again you have have a specific opaque background to differentiate specific ship types say military, civilian, or construction ships. It also save allot of space in menus as all ship designs need the same space in the lists. You can still have the ship type and name available when you click on them. Even if the symbol is just a two or three letters it would be better this way as the combination of the symbol and colour tell you soo much more in a glance.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

While it's true that I may be "old school"

I'm old school too, or I wouldn't have posted a screenshot of SW Rebellion [:'(]

Amidst all the conceptual disagreement, my reading is that there is a consensus on improving at least the contrast for readability in the new UI.

ORIGINAL: Galaxy227

It's nearly impossible to measure the functionality of DW2's interface to any meaningful extent until we can get our hands on the game ourselves.

Yes and no. We already know all characters will be under the diplomacy tab, and IMHO that logic deserves reconsideration.

I am not an expert with UI, but is the UI and text not all rendered as a semi transparent layer?

If so, this would explain the lack of crispness.

Perhaps all that is needed is a dimmer switch on the transparency scale?

Depending on what one wants to focus on, the galaxy and it's contents V the user's interface:
Concept: when the cursor or keyboard focus is directed to the interface perhaps it could render less transparent and more highlighted?

Any text has to be made legible by properly presenting font on background, the background being preferably plain and adequately contrasted.

My humble thoughts.

When it comes to colors let us remember that one in 9 males has some degree of red-green color deficiency.

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
Yes and no. We already know all characters will be under the diplomacy tab, and IMHO that logic deserves reconsideration.

Well, I guess I need to add a disclaimer. Keep in mind I was showing a late Alpha build, about to go to Beta. Nothing is really final until we get to release and we expected that beta feedback on the UI would result in iterations and possibly reorganization. The UI improved over the course of every DW1 beta process.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: RogerBacon
When it comes to colors let us remember that one in 9 males has some degree of red-green color deficiency.

Yes, we're planning to address that as well in one of the options.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Miletkir
Yes and no. We already know all characters will be under the diplomacy tab, and IMHO that logic deserves reconsideration.

Well, I guess I need to add a disclaimer. Keep in mind I was showing a late Alpha build, about to go to Beta. Nothing is really final until we get to release and we expected that beta feedback on the UI would result in iterations and possibly reorganization. The UI improved over the course of every DW1 beta process.

Regards,

- Erik

I did mean to discuss it as feedback before the full initial release. I just expected that what we saw during the "reveal" stream was going to be pretty much the same as the first beta version. Although by virtue of the disclaimer I suppose we might not know before said release [:'(]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: RogerBacon
When it comes to colors let us remember that one in 9 males has some degree of red-green color deficiency.

Yes, we're planning to address that as well in one of the options.

Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!

[8D]

I really don't like flat interfaces, maybe I got it wrong but your screenshot (@Galaxy227) seems to imply very flat UI.

Flat UI came into fashion due to touch screen monitors such as mobile phones and cash registers, flat UI makes a lot of sense for touch screen but I don't think it fits well into PC game.
(regardless if Microsoft makes their Windows UI look like phone, joke lol..)

Why not?
Because it makes gaming harder (not related to 4x games), ex. a color of an UI element can't be similar to it's surrounding form because it's harder for your eye to detect it,
also for flat UI it's harder to represent clickable area.
This is probably less of an issue for turn based games since we have plenty of time each turn but it's still an issue for some people.

Mouse input as opposed to finger press, implies something is clicked as opposed to something is touched, since mouse cursor is much smaller than your finger,
more of the clickable UI will be visible and as such must provide better visual feedback (touchable screen is mostly covered by finger and/or persons hand so visual feedback is less visible/important)

In this game most of the time the player will be clicking around UI with mouse, which means a visual feedback is desired much more that what is the case with touch screen/flat UI,
touch screens/flat UI usually label buttons with letters and numbers and there is no need for fancy visual feedback because you are not supposed to
push your finger trough monitor but just touch it instead (that's the reason for existence of flat UI).

Of course something in between can exist or various varieties, such as semi flat UI which is the case with original DW2 screenshot.
The only question is "how much" UI buttons are pushable and how does visual feedbak feels, for this we obviously need to try it out to comment.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I've heard everyone's feedback on this and we'll be discussing it. Probably worth adding though that a UI artist/designer as well as our Art Director helped set the look and color choices for the UI. While it's true that I may be "old school", ultimately when it comes to choices between one dark and unobtrusive color or another, like much of art it tends to be somewhat subjective.

Thank you Erik for taking the time to hear out the community. I know at times it can be difficult to receive negative feedback, considering you've poured your heart and soul into Distant Worlds 2. I want to apologize if I came off as rude in any of my previous comments, that was not my intention.

I love Distant Worlds as much as the next guy, and truthfully only wish for it to succeed. Had this not been the case, I wouldn't have invested the time I did to present you what I personally thought was an improvement to DW2's interface. I digress, the "form" of an interface is a highly subjective preference, and by no means do I suggest that my rendition specifically is what DW2 needs to be (obviously I'd prefer, but that's why it's subjective [:D]). Regardless, and this is an objective statement, when almost every 4X/strategy forum has at some point hounded DW's user interface, and the biggest factor towards convincing people not to buy is the interface, one can safely say there is something deeply, fundamentally wrong with either the function or form of said interface. I can say the interface in DW:U was the most detrimental factor towards the game's success, and am baffled DW2 imitates the "form" of DW:U's UI so closely. Sure, functionally speaking, I'm extremely happy with how DW2's UI is looking so far. Aesthetically however, a healthy majority would agree there's most certainly room for improvement.

Enough rambling though. I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but it is all to better Distant Worlds 2. Thank you again for your attention Erik. With each day closer to release you make this world a more tolerable place for me.

Absolutely zebanovich, my rendition of the interface lacks "visual depth," to quote what Sild said at the beginning of this thread.

This is not as hugely difficult of an issue to tackle as you first seem to suggest, however. Again, the aesthetic of my interface was borrowed from Endless Space 2, a science fiction 4X/strategy game most widely praised for its simplistic and intuitive user interface. I do not believe ES2 suffers from what you've essentially dubbed as "flat UI for touch screen applications." I will admit that mine does at first glance, but only because I hadn't dedicated the proper time and care to flesh out the interface to its fullest. It would be fairly straightforward to add a sense of "depth," only requiring a few careful changes to create such an illusion. Allow me to explain this theoretical improvement of my original rendition, if you will.

Firstly, I'd work to lift the interactive buttons and toggles above their transparent backdrop by shading their most external edges, bringing them to the forefront of the user interface. In doing so, I've essentially created the illusion of two separate layers: a background and foreground.
Secondly, I might dabble with adding a smooth gradient across the transparent background of the interface in an effort to mimic a light source. This gradient would most likely transition from an alpha channel to a soft white with low opacity. In doing so, the backdrop would be given a sense of texture akin to glass, effectively lessening its flat, paper-like appearance. It is no longer simply transparent with added blur, but also translucent.
Thirdly, I would work to create the illusion of a third layer of depth, positioned between the background and foreground. This layer would remain largely untouched, aside from soft gradients or light shadowing, in an effort to make it appear "lower" than the foreground of buttons, yet still "higher" than the background of the UI. This third layer would consist of text, dividers & lines that work to separate and organize parts of the interface, and any other odd bits and pieces that the user won't be directly interacting with. This layer should rightfully appear "higher" than the background, yet still "lower" than the buttons, toggles, and such.

There might be a few more changes I could make to add a sense of depth, but ultimately it would come down to playing with various editing tools. Point being, it is most definitely possible to have depth in an interface akin to my rendition, and mine only lacked it because I was eager to share it with everyone on the Matrix Forums.

I am not a UI designer or as talented as Galaxy227, but for the sake of playing around and proposing different ideas:



I only touched the "planetary fighter base" box and the planet info panel (which is the one that needs the most work IMHO). This is a more "old school" take on it, but I think it's a bit cleaner and more readable, while also having its own style. I also tried to keep it relatively unobtrusive. Some Homeworld inspiration...

The original picture is here.

For a less aggressive version:



And for one that stays true to the original palette:

Speaking of, the selection rings, especially the ones around planets could use some love. They look too coarse and rough, particularly when zoomed in.

The mock up looks much better.

ORIGINAL: Galaxy227

I was not the only one who didn't feel completely satisfied with the new interface for DW2. I noticed people began commenting on how it appeared throughout the forums and other places around the internet. Some were constructive, others were flat-out rude, but all shared a common theme: it didn't look attractive. It was ugly, they said, and unfortunately I couldn't agree more.

+1. I was hoping for better form too but perhaps since it’s alpha it might get polished by release. I also want to be convinced by how functional it is at managing large amounts of data and making it easy to find what you need when you need it.

Interesting take on the UI, Miletkir. I do believe I see, based on your previous references to other games and now your own rendition, that you prefer an interface full of color and pizzazz. Although I'm not entirely against such an interface, I do think I'd prefer a more minimalistic, unobtrusive UI, and I believe Erik said as much in this thread here, quoted directly below:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I don't personally want the UI too bright or vibrant so that it is noticeable when I don't want to pay attention to it. What's "dull" for you is personally "unobtrusive" for me.

My rendition attempted to preserve Erik's more fundamental preferences, such as color themes and discreteness, while still propelling the UI into something more reminiscent of the twenty-first century.

Who doesn't like pizzazz? [:'(]

More seriously, yes, my preference is for a more integrated UI, one that goes hand in hand with the feeling of the game and has its own immersive style (like other aspects of games...). My examples may be too forceful for the DW2 devs' liking, but judging from the current UI, they're not against some decorum either, so I wouldn't posit their choice would be for the minimalisticc. That being said, as far as the planet info panel is concerned, I think it's difficult to make big improvements without using colors or at least tones, given how much information is packed in there.

And what's more recent is not necessarily better. Perhaps even more so when it comes to the 21st century...

Absolutely.

Alas, our disagreement is simply a matter of personal preference, proving any further discussion to be redundant. At this point, it's up to Erik and the rest the development team to decide on what changes will be brought about, if any at all.

The font in your UI concept is certainly easier to read at a glance, with some embellishment your UI would be spot on IMO

Edit, as much as im not a fan of Windows 10 UI in general, for a game as complex as distant worlds,I would much prefer a somewhat soulless but effortlessly readable UI than a work of art that was difficult to garner information from. Of course balance is the key here.