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RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:11 am
by ShaggyHiK
But this is a loss, taking into account the serious surroundings of which the Soviet player does not allow in the game, and if the Soviet player starts to play the game aggressively, without giving up territory. Holding on to the ledges and getting into the environment, the losses will jump sharply.
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:18 am
by Beethoven1
Well then, you gotta love this one. This is in 1943 from the Stalingrad to Berlin scenario
And this one, from the same turn:
Losses from the Axis action phase on turn 11:
And overall losses (keep in mind the Axis losses are not all Germans and include a good number of attacks on Luftwaffe units and the like, and keep in mind the scenario starts with some losses, so you can't really look at the cumulative losses, just the individual turn):
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:46 am
by DesertedFox
Finally, we have found the solution to end the "Soviet bias" rhetoric.
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:51 am
by Sir.Arnold
This is what I'm worried about. There are either BUG or serious WAD problems
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:53 am
by Erik Rutins
Thanks for all the testing and feedback on this. The next public beta (hopefully out today) will include some adjustments in this area and Joel and Gary are continuing to investigate and adjust based on what we've seen from games with the previous public betas.
Regards,
- Erik
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:01 pm
by Sir.Arnold
ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Thanks for all the testing and feedback on this. The next public beta (hopefully out today) will include some adjustments in this area and Joel and Gary are continuing to investigate and adjust based on what we've seen from games with the previous public betas.
Regards,
- Erik
I will wait for the next version to come out, and see this is a bug in disrupted or just a wad problem
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:52 pm
by Erik Rutins
Well, the main purpose of these recent public betas was to get enough feedback to evaluate the changes to the combat system, so it is WAD that we're making adjustments based on that feedback. To some degree, there's always a chance that more play will reveal areas that need adjustment, but once we're happy with the adjusted combat system I expect it will be generally stable for quite a while. That may take a few more beta updates after 1.02.08 though.
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:40 pm
by Erik Rutins
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:31 am
by IDGBIA
Arty disrupting entire divisions worth of men is pretty common to me it seems and the only way to save yourself is to be in a lv3 fort. also I think the bombardment phase should perhaps work differently when defending, as soviets right now you get your entire offensive force disrupted by German guns magically joining as soon as the attack begins and bombarding an entire rifle division worth of men into just sitting this one out, maybe give Germans worse chances later in the game for support unit checks to simulate soviet deception. This is sort of just soviet whining but disruption and routing units could maybe be lowered also, its not uncommon to see a div have all its elements disrupted by arty and then rout and lose all its men due to either the massive odds difference or the disruption itself I'm not exactly sure how its calculated
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:41 am
by DeletedUser44
ORIGINAL: IDGBIA
Arty disrupting entire divisions worth of men is pretty common to me it seems and the only way to save yourself is to be in a lv3 fort. also I think the bombardment phase should perhaps work differently when defending, as soviets right now you get your entire offensive force disrupted by German guns magically joining as soon as the attack begins and bombarding an entire rifle division worth of men into just sitting this one out, maybe give Germans worse chances later in the game for support unit checks to simulate soviet deception. This is sort of just soviet whining but disruption and routing units could maybe be lowered also, its not uncommon to see a div have all its elements disrupted by arty and then rout and lose all its men due to either the massive odds difference or the disruption itself I'm not exactly sure how its calculated
I think some of the disruption concern are a result of confusion from the manual and depiction in the UI, versus how they are actually being reported.
With multiple disruptions counted per element, it makes it appear that whole divisions are being disrupted.
When what is actually taking place, you have various elements that are absorbing the disruption results for others.
So whatever is currently being reported in the game Combat Result General Tab is overstating the number of elements actually disrupted. Some of these numbers come from the same element disrupted multiple times.
Of what value this provides now, I have no idea.
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:48 am
by Sir.Arnold
ORIGINAL: Sauron_II
ORIGINAL: IDGBIA
Arty disrupting entire divisions worth of men is pretty common to me it seems and the only way to save yourself is to be in a lv3 fort. also I think the bombardment phase should perhaps work differently when defending, as soviets right now you get your entire offensive force disrupted by German guns magically joining as soon as the attack begins and bombarding an entire rifle division worth of men into just sitting this one out, maybe give Germans worse chances later in the game for support unit checks to simulate soviet deception. This is sort of just soviet whining but disruption and routing units could maybe be lowered also, its not uncommon to see a div have all its elements disrupted by arty and then rout and lose all its men due to either the massive odds difference or the disruption itself I'm not exactly sure how its calculated
I think some of the disruption concern are a result of confusion from the manual and depiction in the UI, versus how they are actually being reported.
With multiple disruptions counted per element, it makes it appear that whole divisions are being disrupted.
When what is actually taking place, you have various elements that are absorbing the disruption results for others.
So whatever is currently being reported in the game Combat Result General Tab is overstating the number of elements actually disrupted. Some of these numbers come from the same element disrupted multiple times.
Of what value this provides now, I have no idea.
How do you explain that the Soviet CV fell by more than 90%
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:29 am
by loki100
ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold
...
How do you explain that the Soviet CV fell by more than 90%
disruptions - remember that disrupted elements don't count for the final cv
failed leadership rolls
in combination, sounds correct
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:37 am
by Sir.Arnold
ORIGINAL: loki100
ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold
...
How do you explain that the Soviet CV fell by more than 90%
disruptions - remember that disrupted elements don't count for the final cv
failed leadership rolls
in combination, sounds correct
That’s why it is said that there is a problem
It is because of too much disturbance that the CV decreases by more than 90%. This is the problem we have been talking about
RE: Artillery after the beta ground combat changes
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:21 am
by malyhin1517
ORIGINAL: Great_Ajax
As a retir3d US Army Field Artillery Officer, we always called the artillery "King of Battle". The infantry is the Queen of Battle.
Our artillery is called the "God of War", and the infantry is called the "Queen of the Fields"!