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Gizzmoe wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:26 pm

thewood1 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:08 pmHow about stepping up and doing the stuff you want other people to do.

Give me one good example of what that could be what I could do.

"Maybe you should consider posting the links to the threads you mentioned that are relevant to this topic for future reference"

LettuceTurnipTheBeet wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:56 pm I did some experiments and I think I got closer to understanding how ABM radars work in CMO. Namely, since update 1147.40 all radars have vertical scan limits of 30° above and below horizontal - except not exactly.

Non-ABM radars like the FPS-117 can only track targets approximately 8° above the horizon. ABM radars maintain about their nominal detection range up to 30 degrees above the horizontal, but can track targets up to 60 degrees if the distance isn't too great, as in a short-range ballistic missile being fired over the ABM site. However, 60 degrees seems to be the hard limit and I haven't been able to track anything above that with any radar.

How accurate it is, I don't know. On one hand fixed arrays like AEGIS this might as well be the case. In contrast, the TPY-2 is on a swivel mount and can be rotated to face vertically, avoiding this issue. Additionally, I'm not sure if the 30/60 degree limit takes into account the tilt of even the fixed panels. Personally I think this needs to addressed in the DB on case-by-case basis.

Feel free to correct me if you see anything patently false.

That makes some sense. It might be why in my test scenario some missiles are spotted and some aren't. If they have a steeper descent that might put them out of view of radar limitations.

thewood1 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:40 pm

Gizzmoe wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:26 pm

thewood1 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:08 pmHow about stepping up and doing the stuff you want other people to do.

Give me one good example of what that could be what I could do.

"Maybe you should consider posting the links to the threads you mentioned that are relevant to this topic for future reference"

As someone who came up on the internet via college football message boards, I want to point out how much I enjoy the relatively civilized petty debates.

Come for the ABM detection tracking analysis, stay for bickering over message board etiquette.

thewood1 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:40 pm

Gizzmoe wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:26 pm

thewood1 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:08 pmHow about stepping up and doing the stuff you want other people to do.

Give me one good example of what that could be what I could do.

"Maybe you should consider posting the links to the threads you mentioned that are relevant to this topic for future reference"

As someone who came up on the internet via college football message boards, I want to point out how much I enjoy the relatively civilized, off-topic grievances.

Come for the ABM detection tracking analysis, stay for bickering over message board etiquette.

And the duplicate posts.

DaveFromCTX wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:38 am

thewood1 wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:40 pm

Gizzmoe wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:26 pm

Give me one good example of what that could be what I could do.

"Maybe you should consider posting the links to the threads you mentioned that are relevant to this topic for future reference"

As someone who came up on the internet via college football message boards, I want to point out how much I enjoy the relatively civilized, off-topic grievances.

Come for the ABM detection tracking analysis, stay for bickering over message board etiquette.

had a good laugh on this.

Worth noting that there are still open bugs for all Infrared missile warning satellites in the DB - they're limited to 2000nm which basically means that only the STSS entries ever have a chance of detecting missiles. It does wonders when you can detect the missiles early, since then you don't need to wait for the OODA time on your shooters.

You can add SBIRS and DSP in CMO. I agree with you, the problem is that most people don't. There's also other sensors, for example AN/TPY-2 is the radar from THAAD without the interceptors. It's a pretty neat radar in its own right.

One of the biggest differences between a beginner CMO player and a more advanced one is that the more advanced one doesn't think in terms of system versus system. They think in terms of combinations of systems versus other combinations of systems. For example, the beginner player thinks, "Oh no! They're shooting a ballistic missile at me! I'll shoot it down with my SM-3 or SM-6!" The more advanced player thinks, "Oh no! They're shooting a ballistic missile at me! But SBIRS/DSP/AN/TPY-2/Sea Based X-Band Radar detected it way out. My Aegis picket ship in front retains custody of the track, but doesn't shoot, and now I can shoot the SM-3 or SM-6 from further out with more engagement opportunities."

This is where things get complicated and interesting. You have your "system of systems" and it probably has some redundancy. What monkey wrenches can you throw in that "system of systems" in support of your ultimate goal? You might want to strike the CSG, but it's supported by multiple other systems. How do you deny them the use of their "system of systems" in whole or in part, so that when you make your raid, they're now at a disadvantage?

That's part of what good tactics is about: Analyzing their system, and subverting it, in whole or in part, so that you can achieve your goal.

Transient wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:19 pm I think the problem is that in real life, SBIRS and DSP would have already provided initial warning and cued the sensor to search the correct parcel of airspace in order for the ship to form the necessary track organically as early as possible.

Interesting read. Kind of lays out the dog's breakfast of cooperating and competing systems. It also gets a little into the engagement windows for the systems.

Note that the USN is saying they don't want to own the Aegis ashore any more. One of the initial points of deployment was the availability of ready made trained crews with operational experience plus back up from the fleet.

"“Right now, as we speak, I have six multi-mission, very sophisticated, dynamic cruisers and destroyers―six of them are on ballistic missile defense duty at sea,” Richardson said during his address at the U.S. Naval War College’s Current Strategy Forum. “And if you know a little bit about this business you know that geometry is a tyrant."

I thought that last sentence is what we are finding in CMO.