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Also want to point out that in one of the Osprey books, they detailed one engagement between F-15s and Mig-25s. The Sparrows were fired at under 10 miles on two Migs. One Mig notched and the other came about and out ran the missile. The notching Mig ended up getting a third Sparrow into the cockpit at 5000 ft in range at around 300 ft in altitude. Not much different than what we see in CMO. I think the book was the Duel series F-15C vs Mig 23/25, although it might have Combat Aircraft series F-15C Units in Combat.

Going back to the original question about a more dynamic AI response. I'm still curious what that is. Granted WRA is sometimes looked upon as static, its still broken down in responses by aircraft type in fairly narrow bands. What more narrowly focused bands would be needed? And would that change over decades and missile types?

Apart from doing some tests, has anyone spent serious hours playing through the various campaign and other scenarios to see how the new changes affect how the game playes out? If so what are your experiences?

I just cannot get myself to sit down and spend time playtesting the new update..

On the other hand, judging by what others said (the AI being very conservative with missile launch distances) further reinforces my belief that the new missile behaviour system flat out broke the gameplay.

But hey, this is a small price to play as long as we can now claim that this software handles BVR combat more realisticly than DCS.

Seemingly, I am the only one on the entire forum who used this piece of software as a "game" and not just a tool to simulate real life engagements between various weapon systems. Sigh.

I have a benchmark I use with Op Brass Drum and a couple of modded versions of it. Setting the AI to NEZ actually makes it a little more challenging. Both because I can't kill Mig-29s from 80nm away any more and because Iranian SAMs are much more effective. Pre-tiny, I would lose 4-6 aircraft on the US side. Now the final is usually 10-12 USN aircraft. The F-35 is just as effective as before, but F/A-18s and my support aircraft are much more vulnerable. Though 12 aircraft for the entire Iranian AF and IADS is still a small price to pay. But the letters to the families is still hard.

"Seemingly, I am the only one on the entire forum who used this piece of software as a "game" and not just a tool to simulate real life engagements between various weapon systems. Sigh."

I think you picked the wrong game. Maybe something like Fleet Command or Harpoon is better. I'll also point out that many games fix and change things that force you to change tactics. The Combat Mission games and Steel Beasts come to mind immediately. HoI has this going on all the time. Its just about tactics and adjusting them to the new model.

SchDerGrosse wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:49 pm I just cannot get myself to sit down and spend time playtesting the new update..

You really should though All in all it's a really fucking awesome and fun update. Yes, there's lot to learn, old tactics won't work and so on, but "Rome wasn't built in one day"...

thewood1 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:14 pmI have a benchmark I use with Op Brass Drum and a couple of modded versions of it. Setting the AI to NEZ actually makes it a little more challenging. Both because I can't kill Mig-29s from 80nm away any more and because Iranian SAMs are much more effective. Pre-tiny, I would lose 4-6 aircraft on the US side. Now the final is usually 10-12 USN aircraft

Just to clarify, you sat every single AAW of the enemy AI side in Brass Drum to NEZ and it got more challenging? Or did I misunderstand something?

thewood1 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 4:44 pm Going back to the original question about a more dynamic AI response. I'm still curious what that is. Granted WRA is sometimes looked upon as static, its still broken down in responses by aircraft type in fairly narrow bands. What more narrowly focused bands would be needed?

No additional band would be needed, as mentioned before, "all you need" is an AI that would provide automatic suppressive fire against a group or flight that the enemy AI is "Engage Offensive" against, independent of WRA setting...

My issue is when do you use suppressive fire. Its going to be very different across a large number of situations and across 50 years of missile combat.

And, yes, I set all AI to NEZ for SAM and AAM against 4th and 5th gen. I might make some changes to that depending on whether the mission is CAP/Strike/Escort. But so far, losses are higher on my part.

thewood1 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:17 pm My issue is when do you use suppressive fire. Its going to be very different across a large number of situations and across 50 years of missile combat.

True, such thing wouldn't be easy to implement

And, yes, I set all AI to NEZ for SAM and AAM against 4th and 5th gen.

Cool, Brass Drum is one of my favorites and I would really like to try it with your NEZ changes, can you please share it?

I'm not going to share it. I've made a bunch of changes to it for my own testing. There is a side level ROW change in the editor just change it there. Thats how I did it.

thewood1 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:35 pm There is a side level ROW change in the editor just change it there. Thats how I did it.

Do you mean the "Default AA WRA to NEZ" in "Scenario Migration"? That doesn't work as advertised on my system, the Mig29 still have the WRA set to Max for their AA-10.

I did a db rebuild with options: use ini, use new OODA, and set NEZ on AA weapons. Just checked and did it again. Worked perfectly on all Iranian AAMs.