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M60A3TTS wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 3:06 am Front lines on Week 7. Not particularly good from the Soviet side.

Looks about the same in my game Turn 7 except for the Leningrad area and Crimea.

Now that we have turn 7, as mentioned earlier there are excess pilots for the on-map units that now have no more than 32-33 aircraft max in each one. Those in a reserve state will quickly head for the appropriate aircraft pools.



This gives us a current total of 6,452 fighter pilots on the map. We have another 217 pilots in the trained pool.

We have 4,238 fighters on the map.

We have 539 tac bombers on map. 79 of these are I-153BS.

We have 655 level bombers on the map.

109,270 men are supporting the airbases on map.

In the area of operations, Axis activity was light. There were only 4 instances of LW bombers employed in the ground phase. Only a few air recon missions were flown. Air combat in the north saw 3 engagements as Leningrad Air Command committed SB-2 bombers to interdiction missions around Lyuban, north of Novgorod. 8 Axis fighters were lost compared to 62 Soviet fighters and 6 bombers.

Now it's time to go over the difference between the pilot Free Pool and the Trained Pilot Pool.

When an air group is disbanded, all pilots are sent to the free pool. All of the individual pilot data is retained, so if pilot A. Ivanov is in a unit that is disbanded, he will re-emerge into another unit at a later time.

This is one of a very few units that I selected for disband.



We see that P. Kulis has an experience level of 99. Once he goes in, he subsequently comes out of the Free Pilot pool into the 185 IAP.



Now, I selected this pilot in particular to go to this unit because unlike the Trained Pilot Pool where pilot distribution is totally random, in the Free Pool they come out in order of experience and are always sent to a unit before any come from the trained pilot pool. So in this way by selecting Get Trained Pilot Crew from the Air Group instead of Get Max Trained Pilot Crew(s), we are able to put a highly skilled pilot right where we want them.

Now, taking this to an extreme, we could disband a host of units that have 90+ experienced pilots and dump them in a single unit. This is what I displayed in HLYA's thread.



This came from the StB scenario that is known to have quite a few historical pilots with these 90+ experience levels. The '41 full campaign game of course has nothing like this, so you can't just replicate such a thing in any game.

A couple things to point out. This is nothing new, it's been part of the game since it was first released. You find this sort of thing by spending a lot of hours on game analysis. This game has been out for a while now, and it isn't as though I am the only one who figured this out. It is just one of those things not clearly explained in the manual.

Having gone over how to build an uber air unit, let's talk about why it's not a good idea to do it.

Unlike WiTE1, you can't build new air groups in WiTE2. Once you disband a unit, it will never come back. You have to decide how many units you can afford to disband before you start impacting the total force that will have to carry you to game's end. Understand that high experience pilots are not a thing in the VVS, at least not in the early war years. You get one here, you get one there. If you disband 15-20 units to get an uber air unit, that's hundreds of aircraft you will later forgo the use of.

No experienced pilot is immune to dying, even one at 99. A highly skilled Soviet pilot that is constantly in combat against Luftwaffe fighter groups can expect to last 10-15 missions if they are lucky. Luftwaffe pilots last often twice that. So eventually your pilots will all be killed off in this unit if exposed to frequent combat. And VVS pilots with 90+ experience in the early years only appear very rarely.

As I said in HLYA's thread, this type of unit is very inefficient. By that I mean the flight leader of 12 aircraft with the highest experience level carries that over to the skill level of the entire flight. A 99 experience flight leader imparts little benefit to the other 11 pilots of his flight if they are all 90+. If the other 11 are carrying experience level in the 60's, they are gaining 20+ experience from the same flight leader. The only real benefit to a unit with a lot of high skilled pilots is if the lead pilot dies. In that case, another high experienced pilot would take over on the next flight.

General stuff...

At least in the early years of the long campaign, the Soviet fighters are still up against superior aircraft and superior leadership. VVS losses are still going to be high when dealing with Luftwaffe fighters, with their own high experience.

The experience cap of 50 while training in the reserves combined with low air National Morale will continue to degrade the VVS fighter force until 1943 when guards units arrive and impart the +5 NM bonus. Once again, this will continue to drive high VVS losses throughout much of the game.

There is another way to get higher experienced pilots into a unit without adding from the Free Pilot pool. More on that in a few more turns.

As Soviet air units grow in size after 1942, the most experienced pilot impacts a lower percentage of the group overall.
12 planes in a flight of 12 out of 20 is the most ideal at 60%. It will drop to 38% at 32 aircraft and 30% at 40 aircraft. It goes back to what was said previously that the pilot with the most experience is the most important one in the group, but that only carries the group so far.

A little action from Week 7.

Ground attack from Western Air Command under Ivan Kopets.



At this point the combat arm of the command is effectively limited to one fighter, ground attack and level bomber division.

IL-2s are in action pushing back two German divisions this week.

Ground support from IL-2s assist in pushing back 14th Motorized Division.



German 5th Infantry Division driven back.

M60A3TTS wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:21 pm A little action from Week 7.

Ground attack from Western Air Command under Ivan Kopets.

Perfect, I do the same. Once the German fighters start showing up you will need more fighters

Here is a little nugget to consider as it relates to the Soviet Reserve.

You have a unit with 20 pilots with a max unit size of 20. But you only have 7 airplanes. If you send that unit to the reserves, how is it impacted? We already established that pilots in excess of 20 would be removed.



The answer is that here too, the unit loses pilots, only this time it is in excess of the number of aircraft. So this unit loses 13 pilots and more importantly the unit experience level is significantly impacted.

Now let's take the same unit, 20 pilots but this time 19 planes. It goes to the reserves and comes out like this.



Now this time experience only dropped slightly as we lost a single pilot.

This is helpful to keep in mind if you want to keep air units with higher experience levels from degrading when sent to the SR.

Week 8

If I am crazy enough to put up a fight for Sevastopol, may as well do likewise for Tallinn. We put in a city fort. The early capture bonus has started to tick down, now at 5.



An initial German attack is beaten off.



SB-2 bombers harass the SS Totenkopf Division along with other German units operating in the difficult terrain north of Novgorod.



In the Smolensk region, the IL-2s put in a fresh ground attack against the 8th Infantry Division. Lackluster results, but this time the escorts keep the Luftwaffe fighters off the back of our attack aircraft.





Our fighter units on the map are still bleeding off some of the excess aircraft in a reserve state.

I respect the balls in using city forts at those places.

Why the city fort at tallinn though? It looks like you only have three units there (and possibly a hq?). Would have thought you just throw the hq into the sea and just use the 3 divisions to defend without needing a city fort.

Do units defend better in city forts or something?

RedJohn wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:31 pm I respect the balls in using city forts at those places.

Why the city fort at tallinn though? It looks like you only have three units there (and possibly a hq?). Would have thought you just throw the hq into the sea and just use the 3 divisions to defend without needing a city fort.

Do units defend better in city forts or something?

It all comes down to keeping the sea lane open. If we can avoid Tallinn becoming isolated, we have the ability to reinforce Tallinn from Leningrad with 2 additional units per turn. This leaves my opponent without the means of knowing exactly what he has to deal with. If this succeeds in pulling units away from other important areas in order to take Tallinn, so much the better. Meantime the VP bonus ticks down.

Now if the city does become isolated, then all bets are off. We will then consider sea evacuation a la Dunkirk.

I see, makes sense! Talinn certainly does accomplish the job of diverting troops in all likelihood from the time sensitive area, so I'm curious how he responds - or if he just ignores it.

RedJohn wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 4:40 pm I see, makes sense! Talinn certainly does accomplish the job of diverting troops in all likelihood from the time sensitive area, so I'm curious how he responds - or if he just ignores it.

If Tallin is "not" taken and you get to the blizzard turns you better have stockpiles in Tallin for many turns . Because it will become isolated. I am sure you can figure out how.

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 4:56 pm

RedJohn wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 4:40 pm I see, makes sense! Talinn certainly does accomplish the job of diverting troops in all likelihood from the time sensitive area, so I'm curious how he responds - or if he just ignores it.

If Tallin is "not" taken and you get to the blizzard turns you better have stockpiles in Tallin for many turns . Because it will become isolated. I am sure you can figure out how.

Maybe you can let us know how?!

Wiedrock wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 10:56 pm

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 4:56 pm

RedJohn wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 4:40 pm I see, makes sense! Talinn certainly does accomplish the job of diverting troops in all likelihood from the time sensitive area, so I'm curious how he responds - or if he just ignores it.

If Tallin is "not" taken and you get to the blizzard turns you better have stockpiles in Tallin for many turns . Because it will become isolated. I am sure you can figure out how.

Maybe you can let us know how?!

freezing water

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:00 pm freezing water

Afaik all open waters besides Azov and Ladoga have bathtub temperatures all year long in this game, don't they?

Wiedrock wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:29 pm

HardLuckYetAgain wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 11:00 pm freezing water

Afaik all open waters besides Azov and Ladoga have bathtub temperatures all year long in this game, don't they?

I had a game where I held Tallin and it became isolated because of the frozen water near Leningrad. Thus no supply could be sent by sea to Tallin. I am pretty sure it was a WITE2 game and me playing Soviets about a year, or so, ago. Or I could be remembering a game from WITE1. In that case I am sorry for bringing it up.

Well I'll bring this up. I have turn 14 right now and these 2 fellows are still in command.



Apparently we've lowered our standards significantly. That or the AI is Out To Lunch.

Week 9

Tallinn was successfully interdicted by Axis naval patrols on a single hex. The ensuing air battles were costly to the Luftwaffe bomber forces.





An evacuation of the three defending rifle divisions takes place.



A transport is lost during the evacuation, resulting in the 89th Division suffering 3,381 casualties. The remaining two divisions suffer no losses.

The fortress expense of 10AP was admittedly not as useful as hoped since Tallinn became isolated so quickly, but there will be more fortress fighting to come.

Pavlov being alive is actually really inconvenient - his stats are pretty decent (morale aside) but that political rating is brutal if you want to replace WF commanders under him.

RedJohn wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:36 am Pavlov being alive is actually really inconvenient - his stats are pretty decent (morale aside) but that political rating is brutal if you want to replace WF commanders under him.

Yes, given time he could get a couple of his weaker stats improved and actually make it as a secondary front commander. It's just a question of putting in the time to get him there, and that's if the AI doesn't eventually pull him.

On to Turn 10 and time for another ground update.

Up north, in the five weeks since the last report, AGN has made it to the shores of Lake Ladoga. They appear to be moving on the ports in an attempt to isolate Leningrad in that way. Whether there is a push over the Neva in the next few weeks is a question mark.




Down to Velikie Luki and the lines here have been somewhat stable.